lord13
Part of things
Posts: 536
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Hi all... as the topic suggests, i'd like information on shortening drive shafts, has anyone done this at home? I have been quoted £250 plus to do a pair, which is reasonable, but i'm on a budget. Now as i see it, if i remove a section of the shaft in the middle, use a piece of tube with holes drilled in it to sleeve the two pieces of shaft, fit the shaft to the vehicle as is, the once the correct length is achieved, spot weld through the holes to lock the sleeve in place, then remove the shaft and run a continuous bead round each end of the sleeve and there you go, a shortened driveshaft  Can anyone point out any problem with this that i haven't thought of? Which would be better MIG or TIG? Will they need balancing? It's only a road car so will not be subjected to amazing stresses. To be fair, they only need shortening by 20-30mm, but my other option is to move strut top mounts or have ridiculous camber, neither which seem like a good option. |
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All the stress will be on the tube wall for the sleeve doing it that way, could you weld the shaft then slide the sleeve over?
Thinking about it, as long as the sleeve was of sufficient wall thickness and you made it an expansion fit onto the shafts it should be ok as long as your welding is solid and it is a decent length.
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froggy
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,099
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5mm wall sleeve and a slot milled down both sides around 8mm wide . I made the sleeves 150mm long and a good fit so they needed a good clout with a mallet to put together . Never bothered with balancing and never broke one with 450lb ft going through them . Needs a fairly beefy mig or Tig to burn into the slots so the strain is taken off the end welds of the sleeve
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I'd vee the ends and do a few passes of its a solid shaft.
What is it?
Satchell engineering do shafts now, usually for french stuff but the tooling might be suitable for other makes
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Last Edit: Aug 7, 2016 9:33:52 GMT by welshpug
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MrSpeedy
East Midlands
www.vintagediesels.co.uk
Posts: 4,786 
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For a job like that, I'd be using the arc welder.
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Tig root and hot first pass then mig for bulk and strength .
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lord13
Part of things
Posts: 536
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Thanks for all the replies guys... I'll try to answer in order... My MIG and Arc is ok, I used to build security gates and Railings, never used TIG though, I was going to MIG it and give to my friend to finish off with the TIG. I didn't think of slotting them, that makes sense, will reduce the torsional stress on the weld, and they won't have no where near that amount of torque going through them. It's going to be a ford Sigma SE going into my cav.....possibly. I didn't think of using Arc for the whole job, That would mean i could do it all at home. I thought it would be easier to MIG it first while it was all in place on the car as i don't have a TIG at home nor a lift, I'll be lying on my back on my drive tacking it in place before i take them off to weld fully. Well.... more measurements and thought need to go into it first, I did toy with the idea of turning it round and RWD it. But thats a lot of work for me, and i could quite possibly screw it up. Keeping it FWD makes it easier and more feasible as all i need to do is fabricate engine mounts and driveshafts, and swap the loom around. Unless of course anyone wants to swap my 1.6 SE and 5spd for an ecotec + box, manual or auto i don't mind, I just want a teeny bit more power and everyday drive-ability... I've heard tell of folk that have put the ecotec head on the 8v block, which would be even easier, but i'm not sure if that's true or not... Anyway, thanks for all the info guys, this project (whichever way i decide to go) will be started early september, i'll put up a build thread as i go we shall see where it takes us |
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,195
Club RR Member Number: 170
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shortening drive shaftsChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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5mm wall sleeve and a slot milled down both sides around 8mm wide . I made the sleeves 150mm long and a good fit so they needed a good clout with a mallet to put together . Never bothered with balancing and never broke one with 450lb ft going through them . Needs a fairly beefy mig or Tig to burn into the slots so the strain is taken off the end welds of the sleeve Has vibration never been a problem? I appreciate Propshafts are different but the Stag was near undrivable at 50MPH+ with an unbalanced propshaft. jimbo200sx will remember the speed limiting device it had  . |
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MrSpeedy
East Midlands
www.vintagediesels.co.uk
Posts: 4,786
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5mm wall sleeve and a slot milled down both sides around 8mm wide . I made the sleeves 150mm long and a good fit so they needed a good clout with a mallet to put together . Never bothered with balancing and never broke one with 450lb ft going through them . Needs a fairly beefy mig or Tig to burn into the slots so the strain is taken off the end welds of the sleeve Has vibration never been a problem? I appreciate Propshafts are different but the Stag was near undrivable at 50MPH+ with an unbalanced propshaft. jimbo200sx will remember the speed limiting device it had . My Vitesse had the same issue on my homemade hybrid propshaft. All cured with as new custom one though The thing to remember though is that a prop shaft will be turning at 3 or 4 times as fast as FWD driveshafts would, due to them being after the final drive ratio and as such balance is not so critical  |
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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shortening drive shaftssowen
@sowen
Club Retro Rides Member 24
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I'd say a fwd driveshaft would need to be proper shonked to pass a vibration through as they spin far slower than rwd style propshafts. Years ago I had a bearing on a GKN style tripod CV joint fail on a Mondeo, that vibrated a lot, but there was about 1" lateral free play in the shaft!
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,195
Club RR Member Number: 170
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shortening drive shaftsChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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I'd say a fwd driveshaft would need to be proper shonked to pass a vibration through as they spin far slower than rwd style propshafts. Years ago I had a bearing on a GKN style tripod CV joint fail on a Mondeo, that vibrated a lot, but there was about 1" lateral free play in the shaft! I've been there before with a Mondeo inner CV going wonky before, and on an old RST . The speed point regarding driveshafts vs/ proshafts is a good point! |
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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shortening drive shaftssowen
@sowen
Club Retro Rides Member 24
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I'd say a fwd driveshaft would need to be proper shonked to pass a vibration through as they spin far slower than rwd style propshafts. Years ago I had a bearing on a GKN style tripod CV joint fail on a Mondeo, that vibrated a lot, but there was about 1" lateral free play in the shaft! I've been there before with a Mondeo inner CV going wonky before, and on an old RST . The speed point regarding driveshafts vs/ proshafts is a good point! Likewise on a conventional rwd propshaft you can usually feel the onset of a bad bearing long before it's time has come to go awol! Back on topic, some good suggestions on variations of shortening solid driveshafts here |
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No point using TIG welding after , i would tag it with small tacks then get your mate to TIG weld it , then you can add bulk with mig .
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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shortening drive shaftsslater
@slater
Club Retro Rides Member 78
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Theres no need to tig if you mig properly. The weak point of shafts like this is always the HAZ 'heat affected zone' it's not the weld that's weak if done properly it's the bit of shaft next to the weld that gets hot. That's why shortened shafts are never quite as strong as originals unless you heat treat them.
Probably be fine for a road car tho!
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Tig is going to get better penetration , then the mig or arc provides strength . Best of both worlds . You can also use TIG to blend in edges of the mig which could be stress raisers , if the mig doesn't have a smooth transistion angle .
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Tig is going to get better penetration , then the mig or arc provides strength . Best of both worlds . You can also use TIG to blend in edges of the mig which could be stress raisers , if the mig doesn't have a smooth transistion angle . Sorry have to disagree .... Dried on Weetabix,the most adhesive substance known to man,you'll never break that join! (Sorry .... Getting a bit serious there ....) |
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plums , the most adhesive substance is obviously dried egg yolk !
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plums , the most adhesive substance is obviously dried egg yolk ! Its the biggest give away that you've been eating egg and bacon butties from the layby snack vans ....... Or was that just me getting a telling off from the Mrs .....? |
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That was you I'm away from that now , taking one day at a time .
You can do it ....just say no !
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sal
Part of things
Mk2 Cavalier CD
Posts: 240
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Thanks for all the replies guys... I'll try to answer in order... My MIG and Arc is ok, I used to build security gates and Railings, never used TIG though, I was going to MIG it and give to my friend to finish off with the TIG. I didn't think of slotting them, that makes sense, will reduce the torsional stress on the weld, and they won't have no where near that amount of torque going through them. It's going to be a ford Sigma SE going into my cav.....possibly. I didn't think of using Arc for the whole job, That would mean i could do it all at home. I thought it would be easier to MIG it first while it was all in place on the car as i don't have a TIG at home nor a lift, I'll be lying on my back on my drive tacking it in place before i take them off to weld fully. Well.... more measurements and thought need to go into it first, I did toy with the idea of turning it round and RWD it. But thats a lot of work for me, and i could quite possibly screw it up. Keeping it FWD makes it easier and more feasible as all i need to do is fabricate engine mounts and driveshafts, and swap the loom around. Unless of course anyone wants to swap my 1.6 SE and 5spd for an ecotec + box, manual or auto i don't mind, I just want a teeny bit more power and everyday drive-ability... I've heard tell of folk that have put the ecotec head on the 8v block, which would be even easier, but i'm not sure if that's true or not... Anyway, thanks for all the info guys, this project (whichever way i decide to go) will be started early september, i'll put up a build thread as i go we shall see where it takes us If you are just looking for a bit more power a 1.8 (e/se) or a 2 litre 8v (seh/ne) will bolt straight onto your existing engine mounts. You can use your gearbox and driveshafts also. You'd need to do a bit of wiring and sort out a return line to an injection fuel tank but this is all straightforward. I know it's not answering your question about driveshafts but it may be an easier option if it's just a bit more power you are looking for. |
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