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When I go out on the solent in my rib I see the whole of the sky filled with nasty looking yellowish brown smog from all the ferrys and container ships is that OK? Never seen that on land! Boats use what is called "bunker fuel". Basically it's the rubbish left over after they have refined petrol, diesel and other useful elements from crude oil.
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When I go out on the solent in my rib I see the whole of the sky filled with nasty looking yellowish brown smog from all the ferrys and container ships is that OK? Never seen that on land! I have but you need to get back far enough to see it. I was about 3 miles offshore looking towards Cardiff on a fine breezeless day, I could see a big dirty orangey-brown smog covering the entire city in the shape of a jelly mould.
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andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,170
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kabman
Part of things
Posts: 348
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I'd be willing to bet that a more effective way to cut total emissions, by massively reducing traffic, would be to ban post '97 cars instead. We'd have the roads to ourselves- Yay! Absolutely no chance though.... there'd be no vast sums of money to be made.
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Last Edit: Jun 4, 2016 18:49:56 GMT by kabman
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I'd be willing to bet that a more effective way to cut total emissions, by massively reducing traffic, would be to ban post '97 cars instead. We'd have the roads to ourselves- Yay! Absolutely no chance though.... there'd be no vast sums of money to be made. Oh I don't though, they could buy my car for a small fee, not too small of course.
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Last Edit: Jun 4, 2016 18:54:27 GMT by colnerov
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Everybody knows those contrails are pumping out bromine over the working class areas, since the announcement of the Europe vote they have added mind control agents aimed at preventing a Brexit too. Just wait till polling day and watch the number of people who will mysteriously forget they had to vote. Then there's the black helicopters too......
NB some of this may not actually be true but I read it on the internet
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In some cities of Italy they restrict cars based on the registration plate number so ending in odd one day and even another. People just then have a small car for the days when they can't use the gas guzzler ! We have this here and your car is banned one day a week. Except for the window hours, where it's not. And certain roads, where you can drive any time. And some cities within Metro Manila who do not have number coding and others that don't except on two or three roads, along with some that do but have no window hours. So that's easy to follow then. Somewhat bizarrely (although probably not for the Philippines) public transport also falls under this scheme.
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JC
Part of things
Posts: 815
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Just another reason to vote out Bit of a disconnect there. This was decided by The mayor of Paris and the Association of Transport Authorities (Gart) - parts of the French government, so not by the EU. France ≠ EU. I hope people that actually don't understand what the EU is and how it works don't bother to vote at all. Ill-informed votes don't serve anyone. it be a corporate desion,tried in England about 20 years ago,tried ban all cars over 10 years old,came out person who behind it,was manger peugout and someone from ford,way making buy new cars,which are rubbish give me car that got no compters,it be rigged the vote,don't know anyone wants stay in,but we will,how much energy and resoures to make new car, This reads like you've typed it in another language and used Google translate to get into something resembling English - are you not worried you'd have to return to your native country if the UK leaves the EU?
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Last Edit: Jun 9, 2016 14:30:06 GMT by JC
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Nathan
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,627
Club RR Member Number: 1
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Ban all Vw's and Audis that use adblue ! I was quite shocked by this when a friend came over to "Show off" his new A6! Was this re-introduced (I know large lorries still use it) due to the emissions scandal, I would put me off another new car as it's an extra expense that some wont realise.
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scimjim
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,503
Club RR Member Number: 8
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not surprising, it's been on the cards for years and various sources suggest that it will extend to all European major cities eventually.
A quick google suggests that the expected exemptions for classics are already being planned:
Despite the outcry over Paris officials’ decision to ban cars older than 2011 from the city earlier this month-and the fears that nobody may again see Citroen 2CVs in front of the Eiffel Tower-it appears Paris Mayor Anne Hidalgo intends to make an exemption from the ban for historic vehicles.
As announced and authored by Hidalgo herself in an effort to reduce the levels of smog in the city, the plan calls for trucks and buses registered before 2011 to be excluded from within the Boulevard Périphérique starting this July, then all cars registered before 1997 and motorcycles registered before 2000 next July, then ultimately all vehicles registered before 2011 by 2020. No exemptions for classic cars or penalties were announced in the initial round of details.
However, according to the Fédération Française des Véhicules d’Epoque (FFVE), the French arm of the Fédération Internationale des Véhicules Anciens (FIVA), Hidalgo has stated in a radio interview on French station BFM that collector vehicles will not be affected by the Parisian Plan de la Qualité de l’air—the legislation that calls for the ban. In addition, Tiddo Bresters, FIVA’s vice president of legislation, said that FFVE has received a letter from Hidalgo herself stating that historic vehicles—those 30 years or older—will be exempt. As the FFVE pointed out in one of its recent news blasts, though, no such exemption has yet appeared in the text of the PQA.
Noting that historic vehicles represent 1.5 percent of the vehicle fleet in France, but 0.15 percent of kilometers traveled, the FFVE has formally requested that Hidalgo and Alain Vidales, France’s secretary of state for transport, to confirm the exemption.
source Hemmings Daily
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Ban all Vw's and Audis that use adblue ! I was quite shocked by this when a friend came over to "Show off" his new A6! Was this re-introduced (I know large lorries still use it) due to the emissions scandal, I would put me off another new car as it's an extra expense that some wont realise. I was in Halfords a week ago and someone was buying AdBLue for their car - I was a bit perplexed as I didn't think AdBlue was used in cars. I listened in to his conversation with his son and was obviously shocked at how much it was (yes I know it's Halfords and not cheap there but it's to go to place for most people and car stuff) - how much do they use in a car? I think he spent £40+ on it.
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The Millenium Volcon"Get yourself a Volvo if that's what you really want, you might be dead next year. In the meantime, you could be going sideways in a gigantic land barge."
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g40jon
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,569
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Just another reason to vote out Bit of a disconnect there. This was decided by The mayor of Paris and the Association of Transport Authorities (Gart) - parts of the French government, so not by the EU. France ≠ EU. I hope people that actually don't understand what the EU is and how it works don't bother to vote at all. Ill-informed votes don't serve anyone. I suspect the point Adamb is getting at, is that it will perhaps, only be a matter of time before some Eurocrat, picks up the idea and suggests rolling it out across the EU. An awful lot of people are sheep. And this results people blindly voting for things. David 'call me Dave' Cameron and his cronies being a class example. I certainly agree that ill-informed votes are no good for anyone, however, is anyone really that informed, when the only informetion we recieve is essentially propaganda?! I don't think the idea of traffic control/restriction in a heavily built up area is a bad idea. However the execution of it has to be right. As for the arguement about aircraft pollution, a Boing 767-300 for example will burn in the region of 2200kg/hour of fuel(avtur, which is lead free and similar to kerosene), per engine. The exhaust gases have to go somewhere and there are hundreds of these buzzing above your heads day in, day out (just take a look on flightradar24.com! 10000 a/craft showing up on it currently!) Is the car worse than the aircraft? I don't know the answer to that. You could probably work out a reasonable estimate though and it is safe to say neither are great for the environment. Someone else mentioned diesel a/craft. Already plenty of those in general aviation, diamond da-42 being a popular one. On the subject of GA, a lot of the light aircraft you see flying around will be running avgas (essentially high octane leaded petrol, albeit it is now low lead to protect the environmentz.) I work at a small airport (mostly GA and small to medium biz jets and turbo-props)and my car gets covered in nasty contaminants, just from parking nearby. Anyone thinking that aircraft aren't causing much pollution wants to stand near one when they are sat engines running, doing take off checks. it's choking believe me. Back on France, I went to le mans a couple of years ago and was suprised at the lack of new cars. Most people seemed to be driving around in 10-20 year old renaults, pugs and citroens. Also noticed that makes from other countries were a rare sight.
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Last Edit: Jun 10, 2016 9:22:35 GMT by g40jon
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,715
Club RR Member Number: 34
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you do all realise that similar legislation exists in london for commercial vehicles, right? its not as stringent, but its already there and in force, and they could(and will, given time) change the critera at any time.
thats including car derived vans and pickups, and also taxis i think? any pre-2001 diesel powered commercial vehicle cant go int the LEZ- which is more or less anywhere within the m25. the fine is £100+ for entry depending on exact vehicle, charged by the day or part thereof.
as a result, the price difference in this area (essex) of pre and post 2001 diesel commercial vehicles is quite noticable. you can have what is essentially exactly the same vehicle for sale for twice as much as one a couple of years older. some of it is even sillier than that, for example a diesel hilux surf can enter as its is a 'passenger body', but an identical chassi and engine with a pickup body cant!
but as noted above in the french proposals, historic vehicles are exempt.
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Last Edit: Jun 10, 2016 9:25:55 GMT by Dez
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Clement
Europe
ambitious but rubbish
Posts: 2,095
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Jun 10, 2016 10:39:15 GMT
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Don't fret too much over this, it's already quite annoying to drive in Paris and those who still do will probably not care about it.
How exactly can you prevent someone from driving a car that's a year too old in such a stupidly crowded city? I guess most people will just drive their car, see what happens, and just pay a fine every once in a while just like they do for parking.
By the way, this has absolutely nothing to do with the EU, as it's been said. It's just a mayor trying to make a good decision (cleaning up the air by selecting less city-polluting vehicles) that's then ruined by the realization that the French governement massively favoured diesel engines 30 years ago, and that those are the actual culprit.
Also, any activity produces pollution. The good thing with electric cars is the absence of noise, and that the pollution they inevitably involve (whichever type) is not concentrated where the cars are. Diesels are good at low CO2 emissions but suck at particles, making them a good idea on long distances outside of cities.
The irony is, the point of a city is to have everything close by. Cars should be almost entirely redundant. The very fact we need them is proof we have screwed up big time indeed.
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Last Edit: Jun 10, 2016 10:40:56 GMT by Clement
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JC
Part of things
Posts: 815
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Jun 10, 2016 11:33:27 GMT
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I suspect the point Adamb is getting at, is that it will perhaps, only be a matter of time before some Eurocrat, picks up the idea and suggests rolling it out across the EU. Maybe, but it still comes across as a knee-jerk reaction. Also, even if we weren't part of the EU, there's nothing to stop it being a matter of time before some EurocratUK Politician , picks up the idea and suggests rolling it out across the EUthe UKAn awful lot of people are sheep. And this results people blindly voting for things. David 'call me Dave' Cameron and his cronies being a class example. I certainly agree that ill-informed votes are no good for anyone, however, is anyone really that informed, when the only informetion we recieve is essentially propaganda?! I don't think the idea of traffic control/restriction in a heavily built up area is a bad idea. However the execution of it has to be right. Definitely agree there. The problem is the lack of clear information on what would happen with either of the two polar opposite choices. Imo it would be better to get that all nailed down (facts, not conjecture) before they hold the referendum. I don't know a whole lot about it though, I hate bureaucracy / red tape / inefficiency (unless it's v8s ) so there's only so much of it I can stand!
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Jun 10, 2016 14:02:18 GMT
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it be a corporate desion,tried in England about 20 years ago,tried ban all cars over 10 years old,came out person who behind it,was manger peugout and someone from ford,way making buy new cars,which are rubbish give me car that got no compters,it be rigged the vote,don't know anyone wants stay in,but we will,how much energy and resoures to make new car, This reads like you've typed it in another language and used Google translate to get into something resembling English - are you not worried you'd have to return to your native country if the UK leaves the EU? I'm sorry but WTF has this comment go to do with cool old cars. As for not voting if you don't fully understand the situation neither side can claim to fully understand anything so lay off it. Use your vote don't waste it.
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mikeymk
Part of things
'85 Polo Coupe S 1.6 16v
Posts: 931
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Jun 10, 2016 14:28:40 GMT
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Under TTIP corporations will have more power over individual governments, so decisions like banning older cars from UK cities will be pushed by car manufacturers wanting to sell more new cars. think-left.org/tag/linda-kaucher/
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