Fungus
Part of things
Posts: 960
|
|
Dec 28, 2015 21:35:20 GMT
|
Evening,
I've removed the original dials from my Mk2 and fitted a new setup with a custom panel and Porsche 924 gauges.
The Alternator exciter wire goes to the original clocks, and I'm told that without this connection the alternator won't charge. Now that I've no longer got the original clocks, what can I do to replicate this?
Does the exciter wire just supply 12v to the alternator?
Thanks in advance for any help,
Fungus
|
|
|
|
|
squonk
Part of things
Posts: 858
|
|
Dec 28, 2015 22:06:26 GMT
|
Take a wire from the battery + terminal and wire it through the contacts of a relay (terminals 30 and 87)to a 12V 3 watt bulb and then to the W/L terminal on the alternator. Wire the relay so that it turns on when the ignition is switched on. Without the load of the bulb the alternator won't start to charge. Don't forget to put a fuse in the wire.
|
|
2004 Chevrolet Avalanche Z71 2005 Mercedes CLK320 Cabriolet 1996 Mercedes C180 Elegance Auto Saloon 1996 Rover 620Ti (Dead fuel pump) 1992 Toyota HiLux Surf 1987 Range Rover Vogue (Rusty) 1992 Range Rover Vogue SE (More Rusty) 2006 Chrysler Grand Voyager 2008 Corsa 1.4 Design
|
|
Fungus
Part of things
Posts: 960
|
|
Dec 28, 2015 22:52:38 GMT
|
Thanks for the advice.
Can I ask why this works? I'm trying to figure out why the alternator needs the exciter wire at all. I've been reading up and it seems that the alternator fields will become excited once the engine is revved up?
Thanks again
|
|
|
|
squonk
Part of things
Posts: 858
|
|
|
|
|
2004 Chevrolet Avalanche Z71 2005 Mercedes CLK320 Cabriolet 1996 Mercedes C180 Elegance Auto Saloon 1996 Rover 620Ti (Dead fuel pump) 1992 Toyota HiLux Surf 1987 Range Rover Vogue (Rusty) 1992 Range Rover Vogue SE (More Rusty) 2006 Chrysler Grand Voyager 2008 Corsa 1.4 Design
|
|
Rich
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,248
Club RR Member Number: 160
|
Alternator exciter wireRich
@foxmcintyre
Club Retro Rides Member 160
|
|
You don't need all that relay guff. Just an ignition feed, through a 3 watt bulb, to the terminal on the alternator. You have to have it otherwise it won't charge as explained in the (very useful) link. You can tuck the bulb out of the way under the dash or get an actual fancy battery warning lamp and incorporate into your new dash but whatever you do you need it. It's also a handy warning should the alternator fail..
|
|
|
|
squonk
Part of things
Posts: 858
|
|
|
The relay makes it safer by isolating the alternator from the rest of the cars electrics. Without it if there is a fault in the car electrics they could become permanently live by back feeding a voltage from the alternator depending in where the ignition feed comes from. Better safe than sorry. We always do things this way on our engine test beds if a charge circuit is required to prevent that from happening. Potentially a circumstance could occur where the engine could not be turned off if the feed is taken directly.
If you don't want a warning lamp it could probably be replaced with a resistor of 0.2 Ohms and 3w to simulate the bulb but I'd still use the relay to isolate it.
|
|
Last Edit: Dec 29, 2015 9:08:19 GMT by squonk
2004 Chevrolet Avalanche Z71 2005 Mercedes CLK320 Cabriolet 1996 Mercedes C180 Elegance Auto Saloon 1996 Rover 620Ti (Dead fuel pump) 1992 Toyota HiLux Surf 1987 Range Rover Vogue (Rusty) 1992 Range Rover Vogue SE (More Rusty) 2006 Chrysler Grand Voyager 2008 Corsa 1.4 Design
|
|
bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
|
|
Dec 29, 2015 14:18:27 GMT
|
Millions of cars don't use a relay for the exciter why start now ?
|
|
R.I.P photobucket
|
|
squonk
Part of things
Posts: 858
|
|
Dec 29, 2015 16:51:38 GMT
|
Millions of cars don't use a relay for the exciter why start now ? Millions of cars use electrical systems that are designed to work together and are put through months of testing during product development before being released to the public. When combining and adapting parts from different makes and making them work together it is prudent to err on the side of safety. I don't really give a flying curse word whether the OP uses a relay or not. However, 40 years of modifying car electrical systems has taught me that you can never be too safe so I ALWAYS make doubly sure things are safe. The majority of car fires are caused by dodgy electrics. I'd prefer not to become one of those statistics. Each to their own and I don't care whether a relay is used or not but if it were me that was doing it, it would be run through a relay and fused appropriately.
|
|
2004 Chevrolet Avalanche Z71 2005 Mercedes CLK320 Cabriolet 1996 Mercedes C180 Elegance Auto Saloon 1996 Rover 620Ti (Dead fuel pump) 1992 Toyota HiLux Surf 1987 Range Rover Vogue (Rusty) 1992 Range Rover Vogue SE (More Rusty) 2006 Chrysler Grand Voyager 2008 Corsa 1.4 Design
|
|
Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,697
Club RR Member Number: 39
|
Alternator exciter wireDarkspeed
@darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member 39
|
|
The bulb is the protection of the circuit as well as the indicator. You cannot flow much current to create any problems through a 3W bulb filament.
|
|
|
|
Rich
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,248
Club RR Member Number: 160
|
Alternator exciter wireRich
@foxmcintyre
Club Retro Rides Member 160
|
|
The bulb is the protection of the circuit as well as the indicator. You cannot flow much current to create any problems through a 3W bulb filament. This. Remember that post-bulb, the current would have to pass through a piddley panel lamp bulb to do any actual damage. That bulb is also usually enough to kill the field windings power enough to allow an engine to shut down. I talk from experience also, rewiring military vehicles. Thought I'd get all clever with relays, end up with an engine that you have to stall. Wire as per stock, fine.
|
|
|
|
|
squonk
Part of things
Posts: 858
|
|
|
Like I said, I don't really care how the OP does it. But I have been rectifying problems caused by modifications such as these for donkeys years. Wire as you like - I don't give a toss and don't feel the need to argue about it, but I know what best practice is on modifications to keep things safe. For £2.50 and a couple of wires its a no brainer in my book. Make your own choice.
PS: I have also spent many years rectifying wiring on military vechicle's that so-called military electrical experts have 'repaired'. (working at DERA, Chertsey 1984 - 1992). I have also wired from scratch many prototype vehicles and pieces of military equipment. If you managed to wire an engine with relays that then had to be stalled to stop it I wouldn't rate your competence with electrics at a very confidence inspiring level!!!
|
|
2004 Chevrolet Avalanche Z71 2005 Mercedes CLK320 Cabriolet 1996 Mercedes C180 Elegance Auto Saloon 1996 Rover 620Ti (Dead fuel pump) 1992 Toyota HiLux Surf 1987 Range Rover Vogue (Rusty) 1992 Range Rover Vogue SE (More Rusty) 2006 Chrysler Grand Voyager 2008 Corsa 1.4 Design
|
|
Rich
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,248
Club RR Member Number: 160
|
Alternator exciter wireRich
@foxmcintyre
Club Retro Rides Member 160
|
Dec 30, 2015 11:46:29 GMT
|
Like I said, I don't really care how the OP does it. But I have been rectifying problems caused by modifications such as these for donkeys years. Wire as you like - I don't give a toss and don't feel the need to argue about it, but I know what best practice is on modifications to keep things safe. For £2.50 and a couple of wires its a no brainer in my book. Make your own choice. PS: I have also spent many years rectifying wiring on military vechicle's that so-called military electrical experts have 'repaired'. (working at DERA, Chertsey 1984 - 1992). I have also wired from scratch many prototype vehicles and pieces of military equipment. If you managed to wire an engine with relays that then had to be stalled to stop it I wouldn't rate your competence with electrics at a very confidence inspiring level!!! I knew exactly what I'd done and it was admittedly a silly mistake. The exciter was keeping the coil live, meaning the engine ran on as normal. One thing I don't really care for is however is your attitude. I really can't see the reason for you throwing your toys out of the pram over basically naff all..
|
|
|
|
squonk
Part of things
Posts: 858
|
|
Dec 30, 2015 12:01:33 GMT
|
Hey, no argument or attitude from me, two choices - one Ok, one with an additional level of safety - take it or leave it.
End of!
|
|
2004 Chevrolet Avalanche Z71 2005 Mercedes CLK320 Cabriolet 1996 Mercedes C180 Elegance Auto Saloon 1996 Rover 620Ti (Dead fuel pump) 1992 Toyota HiLux Surf 1987 Range Rover Vogue (Rusty) 1992 Range Rover Vogue SE (More Rusty) 2006 Chrysler Grand Voyager 2008 Corsa 1.4 Design
|
|
Rich
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,248
Club RR Member Number: 160
|
Alternator exciter wireRich
@foxmcintyre
Club Retro Rides Member 160
|
Dec 30, 2015 13:25:07 GMT
|
Hey, no argument or attitude from me, two choices - one Ok, one with an additional level of safety - take it or leave it. End of! You certainly come across as edgy in your posts. Even this one. Let's all be nice to each other, and be a big happy car loving family. That's why we are here after all I appreciate where you are coming from with using a relay. It is adding a degree of fail safe. It's just not something that is normal practice, and to most is overkill. That's all.
|
|
|
|
squonk
Part of things
Posts: 858
|
|
Dec 30, 2015 17:28:53 GMT
|
One thing I don't really care for is however is your attitude. I really can't see the reason for you throwing your toys out of the pram over basically naff all.. You don't need all that relay guff. I actually found this comment dismissive, arrogant and condescending to my original post. However, I now doubt that you actually meant it that way. Like you say, lets all be nice to each other!! In the words of the politicians, "lessons will be learned". Time to move on I think.
|
|
2004 Chevrolet Avalanche Z71 2005 Mercedes CLK320 Cabriolet 1996 Mercedes C180 Elegance Auto Saloon 1996 Rover 620Ti (Dead fuel pump) 1992 Toyota HiLux Surf 1987 Range Rover Vogue (Rusty) 1992 Range Rover Vogue SE (More Rusty) 2006 Chrysler Grand Voyager 2008 Corsa 1.4 Design
|
|
Rich
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,248
Club RR Member Number: 160
|
Alternator exciter wireRich
@foxmcintyre
Club Retro Rides Member 160
|
Dec 30, 2015 18:49:21 GMT
|
One thing I don't really care for is however is your attitude. I really can't see the reason for you throwing your toys out of the pram over basically naff all.. You don't need all that relay guff. I actually found this comment dismissive, arrogant and condescending to my original post. However, I now doubt that you actually meant it that way. Like you say, lets all be nice to each other!! In the words of the politicians, "lessons will be learned". Time to move on I think. It wasn't a poke. It wasn't a 'I know better than you'. It was just pointing out in my years of trade experience I have never ever come across a charge light system with a relay. Anyway. I want To see the dash in question. Sounds good.
|
|
|
|
Fungus
Part of things
Posts: 960
|
|
|
I appreciate the help from both of you, I now understand exactly what the exciter wire does and can make my own choice about how I go about installing one. So I'd say the thread was a success, again thanks to both of you. Here's the dash (doesn't look like much yet without any switches in the surround or LED's in the panel And here's the NOS VDO digital gauges that are going in the dash and in the head-unit slot. As you can see, I made a little loom up with colour-coded multiplugs so it's all easy to work with.
|
|
Last Edit: Dec 31, 2015 0:04:49 GMT by Fungus
|
|
squonk
Part of things
Posts: 858
|
|
|
That is very nice. Well done.
What are you going to do about calibration of the speedo?
|
|
2004 Chevrolet Avalanche Z71 2005 Mercedes CLK320 Cabriolet 1996 Mercedes C180 Elegance Auto Saloon 1996 Rover 620Ti (Dead fuel pump) 1992 Toyota HiLux Surf 1987 Range Rover Vogue (Rusty) 1992 Range Rover Vogue SE (More Rusty) 2006 Chrysler Grand Voyager 2008 Corsa 1.4 Design
|
|
Rich
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,248
Club RR Member Number: 160
|
Alternator exciter wireRich
@foxmcintyre
Club Retro Rides Member 160
|
Dec 31, 2015 13:34:50 GMT
|
Seconded, very tidy. Nice job!
|
|
|
|
andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,161
|
|
Dec 31, 2015 17:21:54 GMT
|
I do like a happy ending and I also learnt something too! So thanks for both.
|
|
|
|
|