v8jim
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,304
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Has and any info and preferably real world experience of tuning Land Rover tdi lumps? I've read loads online and kind of know what to do but theres lots of conflicting information about what it will do to the engine. I want it to be reliable usable truck and don't want to be killing engines. Some people say they know tweaked engines that have been fine for 100k+ and others say if you up the fuelling the exhaust gas temperature will go so high it will just melt valves, pistons and manifolds etc apparently upping boost on a 300 is an absolute no as its already 1 bar and anymore will destroy it
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Kieran
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,092
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Get an egt gauge on it, cheap off eBay and stick n the egt blank.
Bear in mind a 2 ton truck with a lowly tuned tdi engine isn't ever going to be mega quick.
Ours is fairly stock, egr blanked but with a boost pin off eBay.
You can tune the stock pump, but the boost pin adjusts the ramp angle of the governer pin. The biggest problem with the boost pins is then adjusting the fueling down so you don't get clouds of black smoke following you around.
There's loads of info about and as you say, the stock 1 bar boost is the max really. You can tap the inlet manifold for a boost gauge and make sure you are getting 1 bar though. Adjust the actuator rod if you are down on boost.
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Last Edit: Nov 7, 2015 11:17:54 GMT by Kieran
The Ashby Jackson fleet:-
1979 Mini Clubman 1.8 K series 1978 Skoda 110r Project 130RS K-oupe 1978 Austin Allegro 1500 SDL Estate 1984 BMW K100 Sidecar outfit 1999 Yamaha FZS 1000 Fazer 1991 Kawasaki ZXR400 race bike 2002 Kawasaki ZX9r race bike
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What about an uprated (or additional) intercooler ? My 100% standard 300TDi auto is "bloody quick" compared to other 4x4's I've owned - including V8 Range Rover. I think the auto aspect makes a big difference compared to stirring a stick
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What about an uprated (or additional) intercooler ? My 100% standard 300TDi auto is "bloody quick" compared to other 4x4's I've owned - including V8 Range Rover. I think the auto aspect makes a big difference compared to stirring a stick Yeah, my 300 is fairly standard but just really healthy and the truck isn't exactly slow,, has the usual EGR bypass, silicone Turbo hoses (the cheap rubber ones blow up like a balloon), has the big Allisport intercooler and a new Turbo last year though. So i think the first step is to make sure everything is healthy with the motor, should go pretty well.
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72 Pontiac Firebird Formula 400. 95 BMW E34 525i Manual. 80 Lotus Elite, sold 86 Mk4 Escort RWD V8, sold
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turn the diahpram on the pump 1/4 turn mark were it is as standard so u can put it back if theres issues...break the anti tamper off the pump n richen it up..weve used a choke cable in the past so u can turn the fuelling up as and when needed..don't bother with the boost it wont help.....if your still not happy put a variable schroll turbo off a vw..you wont blow it up unless you really hammer the fuel into it but if you are at that point there will be black smoke accross two counties!!!!....only weakish point is the head gasket but if its going to go it will anyway...use good oil n thrash the pants off it they take it well...
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,714
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Land Rover 300tdi tuningDez
@dez
Club Retro Rides Member 34
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pump timing is critical on turbo diesels. before i did anything else id do the cambelt and tensioners, and be meticulous about getting it timed right. most mechanics these days are pretty slapdash and working to the clock, so don't seem to take particular care about such things, they just want the job done as quick as possible. getting this bit right is more important than any tuning you do afterwards and is essentially free, so id start there.
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Somewhere in the shed I have a Morgan Hill Boost Pin that I bought from someone off the Land Rover Forum. Never got to fit it, but by all accounts makes quite a difference.
Its also meant to be very easy to fit.
Get back to me if its any use and I'll try and dig it out/locate it.
Cheers
Dave
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First things first, if your discovery is an automatic you can't do most of what i'm about to say as its governed by an ecu controlling it. However that is chip-able so if you want more power that is your best route.
For a manual start with removing the EGR valve and fitting a blanking plug and getting silicone inlet hoses to the turbo. Then i would get a de-cat down pipe, leave the mid and back box in unless you want a really loud exhaust noise. the cat will not make much difference to the noise but does let the engine/turbo breath easier.
Next before playing inside the pump I agree with Dez pump timing is an often missed and very important step in getting the 300tdi engine to work well. Any tweaks you do to the pump itself will not have their full effect if the pump timing isn't optimum first so that is your next port of call. A lot of people who change the belts (mechanics and owners) do so following most of the instructions and use pins. But most are not interested in getting the best performance from the engine, they simply want to put a new belt on before the old unknown one snaps. Often they use drill bits to lock everything in place (which is fine) but they use a 9mm (instead of 9.5mm) drill bit for the injection pulley which is where they unwittingly retard the timing and loose a load of performance from the otherwise healthy engine, this is often accompanied by lost of white smoke when cold. 0.5 mm doesn't sound like much but it makes a big difference.
There is an important bit in doing the timing when you are looking to get the original setup right. The timing pin in the injection pump needs to be tight in the housing and the pulley turned clockwise to touch the pin (the slot hole in the pulley is a fraction wider than the pin hole in the housing). That fraction is enough to have the timing retarded a bit past where landrover designed it to be and does affect the standard power output. If the pump is empty of fuel its not a problem as there is no internal force on the pulley, but unless you are fitting a replacement pump it will be full of fuel and this is being compressed inside at the point the pin is inserted (after all that is what an injection pump does, compress fuel) So if you loosen the 3 pulley bolts without having the pin in the pump and shaft will rotate anti-clockwise quite a lot as the compressed fuel expands. Same happens if the pin isn't tight in the pulley, but only till the pulley touches the pin. Which is retarding the injection pump. So getting the right size pin and rotating the pulley clockwise till it touches it, then tightening the 3 pulley bolts makes a big difference.
For a bit more performance you can advance the pump timing a bit more, i did this on my 300tdi by using a slightly smaller pin and rotating till it touches. Think the standard pin is 9.5mm and its only 0.1 or 0.2 to get the advance right.
As a quick tip when doing the pump timing or changing the belt you need to lock the crankshaft in position at TDC, there is a wading plug in the bottom of the bell housing that corresponds to a slot in the flywheel. Many people just line this up by eye, or you can buy a timing pin that screws in to place. Problem with both of these is you either need 2 people (you can't physically look at the timing marks and rotate the engine by the crank pulley bolt) or you are up and down a load trying to get it in exactly the right position. However there is a much easier way. Whether by coincidence or design the reverse switch on the manual box has the same threads as the wading plug, and has a sprung loaded plunger at the end. You can turn the crank to near TDC going by the crank pulley markings, then screw the reverse switch into the wading plug hole, then slowly turn the crank until the plunger pops into the groove and locks the crank in place.
After the pump timing comes the injection pump itself. Inside is an eccentric control cone which governs fuel delivery in reference to boost pressure. This is the part you can replace with a boost pin. But before you do that its worth checking where your original pin is set. When i checked mine i found it wasn't even at the factory position (which itself isn't for best performance). So mark where it is and try turning it around to get the most movement from the pin.
After that you can also add more pressure to the preload of the diaphragm spring, but too much and you get black smoke.
Did all the above to mine and from a numb old truck that wouldn't really pull bellow 3000rpm it now pulls from tick over and goes much much better. Doesn't smoke apart from that first moment you mash the pedal to the floor, and then its only a slight puff which is how a diesel should be.
Well worth the time to do.
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I have done some of these mods on my last 2 Discovery 300tdi's. Timing belt kit is a must. I have EGR blank, tuned pump as per internet description (do a Google search for the "daddy screw"). I have no exhaust boxes just the turbo for silencing and no air filter straight down the snorkel! I have shortened the actuator arm on the turbo and it boosts at about 1.5 bar now on full throttle. There is a little smoke but that doesn't worry me. It's kind of a middle finger to the Environmentalists, plus it amuses me to cover Prius drivers in black smoke. The other thing I did was to clean all the gunk out of the inlet manifold which builds up because of the engine breather. Also check basic things like valve clearances. 300tdi's have a small cap on top of the valve stem that can wear. They are cheap and easy to replace. Just don't drop them down they oil galleries!! The other thing is to replace the fuel filter and clean the sediment trap located just above the rear axle on the drivers side. Make sure if you do fiddle with the pump to mark it before you adjust it. That way if your not happy with it, you can put it back to where it was.
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v8jim
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,304
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Ok brilliant guys lots of useful information there thanks
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Max sig pic size: 80px
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Rich
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,255
Club RR Member Number: 160
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Land Rover 300tdi tuningRich
@foxmcintyre
Club Retro Rides Member 160
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If you have an EDC pump, the first thing to do is fit a mechanical VE from a manual/defender. Done mine. Otherwise I've adjusted the max fuel screw, and turned the boost pin to the most aggro face and also turned the tensioner spring platform down one half turn so the pin kicks in sooner too. Stock boost, no egr, goes well without too much smoke, enough to spin 2 wheels pulling out of junctions on hard throttle. If you want to keep the EDC pump, if you have/do an EGR removal, unplug the sensor on the back of the inlet manifold, it's a boost temperature reference sensor and it goes better with no EGR and it unplugged. No idea why, just seems to be the done thing I'm told.
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Two things that have been said that I personally disagree with.
1, don't bother with increasing the boost as you won't gain anything. What rubbish!!
2, adjust the fueling screw on the back of the pump. Why? Do you like pumping in extra fuel at idle as well? Only time you need to adjust this, is if you're pushing in some quite serious boost and turning the diaphragm to the steepest side, doesn't give you enough fuel.
Diaphragm adjustment is correct and only gives you the extra fuel when you need it, when on boost. Also important is the star wheel that sits below the spring, under the diaphragm. That needs to be turned clockwise (lowered slightly), to allow the pump to start giving extra fuel sooner (less boost pressure required to push the diaphragm down) On a 200, wastegate adjustment in situ is simple, on a 300, it's nearly as quick and definitely easier to just remove the manifold from the engine and downpipe. It's only 11 bolts/nuts. If the engine is good mechanically and hasn't done intergalactic mileage, shorten the wastegate actuator rod by 7mm. All these alterations will (if everything else, valve clearances, pump timing etc are correct) give you an increase of approx. 20-25bhp with a single box exhaust and egr blank.
Mark the position of the diaphragm before you turn it, as you'll be able to put it back if need be. As has been said, make sure cambelt, tensioner and idler is changed if you don't know when it was done last.
There's plenty of info on the web, including pics, showing how to do these mods.
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1964 Saab 96 two Stroke 1971 Hillman Avenger 1500 GL (Tuned 1600 fitted) 1976 Saab 99 2dr EMS (Project of very slow progress) 1978 Saab 99 2dr EMS (Awaiting reshell) 1981 Saab 99 2dr Turbo (Awaiting reshell)
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P.s, my old 300 tdi disco had done nearly 170,000, was on it's second head gasket (common for them to go around 100,000 anyway) but was mechanically very good. I ran a single box exhaust, egr blank plate, k&n panel filter, diaphragm, star wheel and wastegate adjusted(aprox 8-9mm) and at nearly 1.5bar boost @ 3000 rpm in 3rd, never had any overheating issues or head gasket problems. Went like a train too, but without covering everything behind it in soot.
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1964 Saab 96 two Stroke 1971 Hillman Avenger 1500 GL (Tuned 1600 fitted) 1976 Saab 99 2dr EMS (Project of very slow progress) 1978 Saab 99 2dr EMS (Awaiting reshell) 1981 Saab 99 2dr Turbo (Awaiting reshell)
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