Del
South East
Posts: 1,448
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Oct 28, 2015 23:12:13 GMT
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Just pricing up some discs and pads, and there's such a disparity in price that I wondered do you really get what you pay for?
For example, Euro Car Parts have SBS front discs for £8.04, they have two Pagid discs, one twice as much at £16.20, and another at over a tenner more at £27.54. And this is before you get to other suppliers selling EBC, Mintex, Ferodo, Brembo etc.
Even I, who is on a budget, would be very wary of discs that cost me less than a CD, but surely there must be some kind of testing system and standards that they have to meet?
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Last Edit: Oct 28, 2015 23:42:46 GMT by Del: Spelling...
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adam73bgt
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,869
Club RR Member Number: 58
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Oct 28, 2015 23:26:31 GMT
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I would be inclined to say yes you do get what you pay for when it comes to brakes, but its an interesting question I work in the brakes engineering department of an OEM car manufacturer and we spend so many hours/days/weeks etc. tuning the brake pads and discs for performance, judder, noise etc. But I don't know how much work aftermarket companies have to do on this. I would suspect legally they would only have to prove the pad will stop the car, done through homologation of the pad for road use But when it comes to noise and judder etc. I would highly doubt they are all as thorough as OEM's are As for the difference between different aftermarket brands, thats a bit harder. I did the front brakes on my Saab not too long ago and there was quite a big difference between the pads I took off and the Pagid 'OEM spec' ones I put on The ones that came off, had no chamfers on the friction material and no backplate shim (things we would use at work to tune out various brake squeals). The Pagid pads also had the riveted on low pad warning indicator which the other pads didn't Couple of pics of what I mean   The old pads had plenty of life but they squealed badly, the new ones have been nice and quiet  I don't seem to recall them costing too much but the Pagid stuff came recommended from other Saab guys so I figured it wouldn't hurt to spend a little more Thats my 2p's worth anyway  |
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I am no expert but I have used D2500 Ferodo pads on a few of my cars and despite them being double what others charge, they were worth every penny. |
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96 E320 W210 Wafter - on 18" split Mono's - Sold :-(
10 Kia Ceed Sportwagon - Our new daily
03 Import Forester STi - Sold
98 W140 CL500 AMG - Brutal weekend bruiser! Sold :-(
99 E240 S210 Barge - Now sold
02 Accord 2.0SE - wife's old daily - gone in PX
88 P100 2.9efi Custom - Sold
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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Oct 29, 2015 10:34:16 GMT
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Yes you do I would only use the cheaper end on a car i was getting through an MOT and selling on, customers cars i don't even offer the lower end stuff it will just be back in a few weeks with complaints of noise, judder, warping ect, on my own cars it's mid range or above same as customers cars. I have a cr@ppy back street garage and given the choice all my customers would go for the cheapest so i don't give them that coice) lol Pagid are fine IME, on my older fords i only use NOS from back in the day when pads were sinterd and used asbestos cos basicly they work, TBH asbestos don't bother me i've been changing pads with it in for the last 30+ years i just take care and use brake cleaner to keep it out the air. |
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R.I.P photobucket
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Oct 29, 2015 10:48:37 GMT
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I am no expert but I have used D2500 Ferodo pads on a few of my cars and despite them being double what others charge, they were worth every penny. I agree, I run these on a few cars, but Pagid RS Blue are even better. For OEM applications I think Pagid's general discs/pads are excellent and real good value for momey. |
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 Specialist Bodyshop & Fabrication Classic, Retro, Prestige & Custom Small Repairs to Concours Restorations Mechanical Work Vintage to Modern |
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Oct 29, 2015 11:17:12 GMT
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I had a H reg 2.0 GL auto Passat that failed mot on handbrake. New discs and Ferrodo pads had recently been fitted so next I tried handbrake cables and then callipers but still not required efficiency. In frustration I bought some Jurid (OE spec) pads and problem solved. On examining the old "Ferrodo" pads I round they crumbled when faces rubbed against each other. Turned out greedy local accessory shop had bought them cheap, with no questions asked, and were bootleg items.
So for accessory shop to make a few quid more I cost me over £300 in parts - the calipers alone for the 2.0GL auto are far more than standard and were something like £120 each !
So now I only buy decent brand pads from reputable sellers. Discs on the other hand I still tend to buy cheapest from the same reputable sellers - like GSF, etc.
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mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,967 
Club RR Member Number: 77
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Oct 29, 2015 13:54:15 GMT
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We use either National or if we can get them TRW stuff. the TRW stuff is miles better than most of the cheapo junk, but is more expensive. don't take long to bed in and give a very good pedal as well |
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Del
South East
Posts: 1,448
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Oct 29, 2015 17:29:50 GMT
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Interesting points everyone, cheers! bortaf, where are you based? |
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60six
Posted a lot
(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻
Posts: 1,658
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Oct 29, 2015 17:41:10 GMT
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Every time I have gone for the cheaper brake options the discs end up getting warped. Just got set of pagid discs and pads for my saab 9000 and they have so far done 5000 without any difference / juddering.
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Some 9000's, a 900, an RX8 & a beetle
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,714
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Oct 29, 2015 17:45:10 GMT
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i must be the only person who doesnt rate pagid then. the quality has noticably dropped over the last few years, and the 280mm conversion i did on our lupo has warped the discs within 3000 miles. the pads seem no different t any other cheap brand, TRW, etc.
you also have to consider that pagid is now essentially an ECP 'own brand', as they own the sole UK distribution rights to pagid products, so you cant actually buy them anywhere else.
IMHO brembo from GSF are better and around the same price.
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Last Edit: Oct 29, 2015 17:50:38 GMT by Dez
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Oct 29, 2015 18:38:01 GMT
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On my last e36 wagon i used a cheap brand (think pagid) for pads and discs and they squealed like mad and i bedded them in properly. Next time i will use national or trw as they seem to be a good mid end brand that i have never had issues with tbh!
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Oct 29, 2015 18:51:34 GMT
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On a similar note, is it okay to use new old pads, as I have a set of Ferodo pads in the garage which I think are about 5-7 years old.
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1993 Fiat Panda Selecta
2003 Vauxhall Combo 1.7DI van
2006 Mercedes Kompressor Evolution-S AMG SportCoupé
"You think you hate it now, wait til you drive it"
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Oct 29, 2015 18:59:17 GMT
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i must be the only person who doesnt rate pagid then. the quality has noticably dropped over the last few years, and the 280mm conversion i did on our lupo has warped the discs within 3000 miles. the pads seem no different t any other cheap brand, TRW, etc. you also have to consider that pagid is now essentially an ECP 'own brand', as they own the sole UK distribution rights to pagid products, so you cant actually buy them anywhere else. IMHO brembo from GSF are better and around the same price. I don't rate them I've removed more pagid pads for noise than anything else I've ever fitted and the discs don't last very long before they are warped They do another brand called eicher and they are cheaper than pagid but seem to be more reliable |
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Oct 29, 2015 19:11:30 GMT
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No you don't always get what you pay for, it depends upon markup. Euro Car Parts homebrand stuff is no better than the cheapo stuff from a local factors apart from its normally twice the price. Never rated brembo and had no experience of ferodo.
Pagid, Mintex and TRW all come out of the same TMD friction factory. I rate all 3 as pretty good. TRW tends to be most pricey.
Also some new to the market brands (Brek and Brayman spring to mind) are offering really good quality pads for a cheapish price presumably to get a foot in the door. I know putting a braymann next to a pagid they both have all the hallmarks of a quality pad.
DO NOT FIT BRAKEWORLD they are absolute garbage. I know I sold them for long enough at a previous place of work.
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Last Edit: Oct 30, 2015 0:16:33 GMT by stonyray
Nissan Laurel SOLD  BMW E34 Diesel SOLD Toyota Soarer 4.0 V8 SOLD Audi A4 1995 TDI SOLD Peugeot 205 1.9 TD SOLD Lexus IS300 SC |
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Tepper
Part of things
Posts: 381
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Oct 29, 2015 19:56:57 GMT
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For what it's worth I've found Pagid stuff to be absolutely fine and pretty good value, although I recently found a pair of NOS Brembo discs on eBay for less than £15 so could also be worth a look.
Also, I fitted a set of genuine Toyota brake pads recently that were made by Pagid, so unless there's some brand engineering going on they should be OE quality.
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1989 Peugeot 205 GTi - stolen!
1983 Mazda RX7
1968 Rover P6 - also stolen.
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Oct 30, 2015 12:42:08 GMT
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I've got Project Mu pads and slotted rotors in my STI as fitted by the previous owner, they definitely work well but squeal a fair bit!
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LowStandards
Club Retro Rides Member
Bigging Up The Sum Sum Man Since '99
Posts: 2,650
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Oct 30, 2015 13:25:45 GMT
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I always buy the cheap stuff and have had no problems whatsoever
I figure they have to pass some sort of legal requirement so its all good.
I have never found them to warp, squeal, judder etc and have been using the pikiest stuff for what, 15 odd years...
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haggis
Part of things
Posts: 459
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Oct 30, 2015 13:51:38 GMT
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I had a bad experience with my old Audi A4 Quattro. I had fitted cheapo pads from the motor factors which stopped the car perfectly well but after a while i was hearing a small clicking noise when i lifted off the throttle in traffic. I had the car in the air several times to find the noise all with no joy.
It wasnt until the car was in audi for a recall (when it was 8 years old!) they told me the "spurious" pads were the source of the noise. They fitted audi ones and it went away!!!
Turned out the factors ones were 1 or 2 mm smaller and were dancing around the caliper.
I still don't believe in OEM stuff tho. I always buy EBC pads cause they never fade, last for ages and ALWAYS fit.
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Oct 30, 2015 13:56:35 GMT
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brakes and tyres i try to at least get a known brand name , cheaper than going in a ditch etc
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91 golf g60, 89 golf 16v , 88 polo breadvan
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,195
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Oct 30, 2015 14:29:53 GMT
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Just pricing up some discs and pads, and there's such a disparity in price that I wondered do you really get what you pay for? For example, Euro Car Parts have SBS front discs for £8.04, they have two Pagid discs, one twice as much at £16.20, and another at over a tenner more at £27.54. And this is before you get to other suppliers selling EBC, Mintex, Ferodo, Brembo etc. Even I, who is on a budget, would be very wary of discs that cost me less than a CD, but surely there must be some kind of testing system and standards that they have to meet? I was asking myself this question a few months ago because I have been stung on a couple of occasions. At one point I was doing 70k a year in a car so I got to try just a few brands on cars  . IMHO genuine parts from the dealers last the longest. Yes they are expensive but it is one way of getting what you pay for. The Motorcraft pads in the Mundaneo outlived many other things without squeal, fade kicking in early etc. and so on. They tend to come with a little more meat on them as well to the point they can be tricky to fit into a caliper when using a fresh brake disc etc. With aftermarket brands, be it OE or pattern it is more of a lottery. I have had Brembo pads fade and glaze within months of use and pattern stuff be fine, bar having the odd clunk due to the pad to carrier clearances (i.e they are too big). Bendix also seem to be wierd on the wear rate. TRW is fine and have been great on the Stag and Escort. I have not had Pagid pads before for the reasons Dez has said but do now have Pagid discs on Bosch pads (it is a setup a local indie recommended if I decided not to go genuine) on the Clio. They are superb stoppers, stopping on the button. They are an improvement over the Brembo Max discs and Apec pads that came off. As for saying people must have to adhere to standards, they do, as long as they can bring the car to a halt. My old Daily is now on cheaper pads but let's just say my stopping distance has increased by quite a way. I remember that car stopping superbly, and I have a yardstick to compare that car to before people accuse me of wearing rose tinted glasses (another car which has not yet had its brakes touched since we bought it). |
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I don't seem to recall them costing too much but the Pagid stuff came recommended from other Saab guys so I figured it wouldn't hurt to spend a little more
.