Aaron
Part of things
Posts: 418
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Oct 21, 2015 21:04:01 GMT
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For what it's worth my definition of a sleeper is something that's a base model, totally unassuming that you wouldn't give a second look at.... I once photographed a blue Lada for Street Machine in Holland - it was just a blue Lada with white plastic wheel trims. Nothing else, just a blue Lada. Flip the bonnet, it had a built 302 small block.... Same meet, a Mazda 323 - green stock-ish steels, again nothing special - ran 11's with a nitous injected Rover V8.... My recipe is a car I have - stone stock Chevette in pale green. The interior will remain stock, steering wheel stock, everything inside as factory as you can get. No gauges, nothing at all to give the game away. I also have a 2.0-litre Ecotec to which I'd build to a built VXR spec - aim for BHP in the 350-400-range. Keep the exhaust quiet and fit a Scimitar back axle and keep the wheels as close to the standard steels as possible. To me, a sleeper does not have alloys, gauges, race seats, cages or anything else that says fast. The sole message is - "This is dead slow; boring even...!" The whole aim for me is to lull you into a false sense of security - then blow your f"""in doors off! That's a sleeper! Hope that helps? Spot on! Well put.
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1992 Eunos Roadster S-Special 2007 BMW Z4 Coupe SI
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Oct 22, 2015 15:47:29 GMT
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You quite often see 2.0 corsa/nova's about.
how about : K11 Micra , SR20 high-lift cams ported and polished head. will cost about £1800 to build with custom drive shafts. leave the 1.0 sticker on the back for extra sleeperness
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VW nut 1984 MK2 golf type 19e
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Oct 22, 2015 19:19:49 GMT
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I think there's two ways to approach the idea of a sleeper. You can go for the "world's fastest minicab" style:- Utterly stock looking boring car (Mitsubishi Carisma for example) with the most ridiculous engine you can think of/afford. The only thing with that is you can be too subtle. If you see a car like that sounding like a BTCC contender you'd soon catch on there was something a bit special under the bonnet. Especially if it got a bit of a reputation with the local "car people". The other way to do it is with a car that looks a little bit quick but not a lot. Something with unrealised sporty pretensions (3rd gen base model Camaro,) then give it the guts the factory couldn't do. And fit some cheap alloys too. If you see a sports/muscle car on steel wheels you just know it's quick, as if it's trying too hard to look innocent.
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jonk
Part of things
Posts: 154
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Oct 22, 2015 21:51:39 GMT
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I was overtaken by johnrh's Volvo 240 estate on a M62 slip road, I was in my modern powerful turbo diesel car and he absolutely battered me like I was standing still (and I was foot to the floor!). I just didn't know what had happened to me (hadn't been on this website at the time). I later found he has a 940 2.3 turbo engine in with the boost turned up in it and he goes orotund finding Audis to embarrass!!!
I've been reading a thread on another forum where loads of people claim not to understand what a sleeper is for - "I'm not a boy racer, and why would I want to go looking for people to race at traffic lights when they don't even know they're racing me because my car looks boring" etc...
This story nails the point though. It works because there are lots of people like us looking closely at what everyone else is driving/doing. So the best sleepers have to trick the people who are interested enough to get it. Volvo t5's, Saab Aeros and the like might count as semi-sleepers and have their place as incongruously quick old boxes, but anyone who knows their onions will spot them a mile off, and anyone who is surprised by their turn of speed probably isn't that interested anyway!
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EmDee
Club Retro Rides Member
Committer of Autrocities.
Posts: 5,924
Club RR Member Number: 108
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Best sleeper advice neededEmDee
@emdee
Club Retro Rides Member 108
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Oct 22, 2015 22:18:42 GMT
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I think there's two ways to approach the idea of a sleeper. You can go for the "world's fastest minicab" style:- Utterly stock looking boring car (Mitsubishi Carisma for example) with the most ridiculous engine you can think of/afford. The only thing with that is you can be too subtle. If you see a car like that sounding like a BTCC contender you'd soon catch on there was something a bit special under the bonnet. Especially if it got a bit of a reputation with the local "car people". The other way to do it is with a car that looks a little bit quick but not a lot. Something with unrealised sporty pretensions (3rd gen base model Camaro,) then give it the guts the factory couldn't do. And fit some cheap alloys too. If you see a sports/muscle car on steel wheels you just know it's quick, as if it's trying too hard to look innocent. You cannot have a sleeper Camaro. I shall not allow it. A sleeper is a car that looks slow. Even a base spec Camaro is not that car. A sleeper has to look slow to someone who might want to race it. ie someone who knows about cars. That means no slight drop/lowering springs, no dirty exhaust notes and absolutely no cages. Even when a car is on steels that are an inch or two too big to house some bigger brakes it can tip you off. Wheels are a critical part of any car. You cannot be too subtle. I also realise that the definition of a sleeper is what is being questioned here and it means different things to different people, so I'm not necessarily correct. Some people will say the Koenigsegg Granada is a sleeper, whilst I would argue that it looks f***ing fast to me because it has gigantic calipers poking out from behind its alloys and a fricking rollcage.
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Last Edit: Oct 22, 2015 22:20:05 GMT by EmDee
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There are a lot of people who are touting cars that are fast from the factory. Maybe ordinary looking, but damn fast by design from the manufacturer. I've always called these 'Q' cars.
If you take an ordinary, anonymous, slow everyday car and tune it yourself to go fast...yet still leave it looking pretty stock, THIS is a sleeper.
I'm sure other people will argue my take on these definitions, but that's how I've always rationalised them.
Q car = very fast unassuming looking factory built car Sleeper = unassuming looking slow car that has been modified under the skin to go damn fast
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Q car = very fast unassuming looking factory built car Sleeper = unassuming looking slow car that has been modified under the skin to go damn fast Can this be distilled further to say that you can buy a Q car but you need to build a sleeper?
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Q car = very fast unassuming looking factory built car Sleeper = unassuming looking slow car that has been modified under the skin to go damn fast Can this be distilled further to say that you can buy a Q car but you need to build a sleeper? That's it pretty much in a nutshell. Said better than I could (and did) say it.
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I believe that once upon a time in the deep dark past when many of the cars we love were new there was a certain amount of cross-over between MM's definitions. When one ordered a new car it was possible to tick the boxes on the option sheet and build one's own car as it were. If one happened to select a bare bones interior with bench seat and rubber mats, and the most powerful engine in the option list the result was indeed a factory built sleeper. Unfortunately it is not now possible to get the go faster bits in a new car without all the fancy stuff as well.
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Last night had the perfect sleeper scenario - I was making my way through Aylesbury in my Vivaro having just collected a whole load of ply. The van's slow but that's ok, because you can just sit back and watch all the egotistical to55ers in their factory built optioned up barry that they think's fast - it's pretty amusing - and there are a lot of them!
Behind me there's bloke giving it the biggun in his spoilered up loud BMW Mini. He's pushing his way to the front all the time and racing everyone off the lights in a car that he think's quick. It isn't particularly but it is loud so he thinks it's faster than it is.
I caught up at the next set of lights in a two-lane Black Top scenario - only, I was behind the unsuspecting victim he was lined up against; therefore I could merely sit back and watched as he claimed yet another scalp.....
This would have been the perfect sleeper opportunity - sat there in a green Chevette carefully building boost on the hidden gauge - but then he wouldn't have heard it above his 10% across the rev range - thanks Revs!
...and you know the rest!
But of course, none of us condone street racing do we kids!!
Nice dream though....
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Mk1 Cortina Wagon Chopped Minor 2-dr 54 Minor Traveller x 0.5
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polo6n1600i
Part of things
All I need is WD40 & Duck tape!
Posts: 405
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I love Sleepers! Owned a 165bhp Polo MK3 G40 - it surprised a lot of modern metal. Just recently bought a factory sleeper too - not many people know what it is. But it can shift and it was sub-£4K 3.2 V6 DSG 4motion - 250bhp std. Loving it - lazy V6 when you want to just cruise & a screamer to 6500rpm when you want to use "sport" or the flappy paddles... Yes I know its a bit new for retro cars, but only a couple of hundred on the road, cheaper than an R36 but not far off them in speed/acceleration etc
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2002 Vw Polo 1.9 TDI sport - Daily Diesel 2006 Vw Passat 3.2 v6 estate - family wagon 1990 Rover Montego 1.6 LX - Project 41
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I think there's two ways to approach the idea of a sleeper. You can go for the "world's fastest minicab" style:- Utterly stock looking boring car (Mitsubishi Carisma for example) with the most ridiculous engine you can think of/afford. The only thing with that is you can be too subtle. If you see a car like that sounding like a BTCC contender you'd soon catch on there was something a bit special under the bonnet. Especially if it got a bit of a reputation with the local "car people". The other way to do it is with a car that looks a little bit quick but not a lot. Something with unrealised sporty pretensions (3rd gen base model Camaro,) then give it the guts the factory couldn't do. And fit some cheap alloys too. If you see a sports/muscle car on steel wheels you just know it's quick, as if it's trying too hard to look innocent. You cannot have a sleeper Camaro. I shall not allow it. A sleeper is a car that looks slow. Even a base spec Camaro is not that car. A sleeper has to look slow to someone who might want to race it. ie someone who knows about cars. That means no slight drop/lowering springs, no dirty exhaust notes and absolutely no cages. Even when a car is on steels that are an inch or two too big to house some bigger brakes it can tip you off. Wheels are a critical part of any car. You cannot be too subtle. I take your point, but what I was trying to say is if you're too subtle it'll have the opposite effect that everyone know about sleepers now and if you show up at a track day RWYB or even the traffic light grand prix most people will suss you out quite soon. On the other hand if you pick a car that looks all mouth and no trousers it will catch people off guard. And the four pot Camaro (between 1982 and 85) made somewhere between 88 and 92 BHP in a 1400 kg car.
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Oct 23, 2015 11:21:30 GMT
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Mk2 Fiesta with a bike engine Too slow, too brash, too noisy. *n
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Top grammar tips! Bought = purchased. Brought = relocated Lose = misplace/opposite of win. Loose = your mum
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Oct 23, 2015 11:26:59 GMT
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Silver 5 door mk1 focus, rust blebs on doors, hatch and arches, no interior other than stock seats and dash top (youre not going to see anything else pulled up alongside it), breathed-on AJ30 from an s-type or Mondeo St v6 thingy.
*n
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Top grammar tips! Bought = purchased. Brought = relocated Lose = misplace/opposite of win. Loose = your mum
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Oct 23, 2015 11:28:30 GMT
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In fact, take the rear seats out entirely and stick some empty cardboard boxes back there so it looks like you're hauling tat with the seats down.
*n
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Top grammar tips! Bought = purchased. Brought = relocated Lose = misplace/opposite of win. Loose = your mum
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mylittletony
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,350
Club RR Member Number: 84
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Best sleeper advice neededmylittletony
@mylittletony
Club Retro Rides Member 84
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Oct 23, 2015 12:17:33 GMT
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Silver 5 door mk1 focus, rust blebs on doors, hatch and arches, no interior other than stock seats and dash top (youre not going to see anything else pulled up alongside it), breathed-on AJ30 from an s-type or Mondeo St v6 thingy.RWD conversion and supercharged V8 *n fixed that for you
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devoru
Part of things
Posts: 10
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Oct 23, 2015 17:38:16 GMT
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Iv'e a sleeper R19.originally a ph1 prima base model.now running full 16v running gear and 15" steelies and faded paint.only looks it gets are in disgust at the state of it.until ya plant the boot. ?
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956ring
Part of things
Lurking
Posts: 36
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B5 s4's are the cheapest they have ever been. You can buy one for less than 3k (just about)
260 but as standard. 320 with a remap.
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60six
Posted a lot
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Posts: 1,658
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Oct 24, 2015 10:12:39 GMT
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Mahle pistons and reinforced crank as standard .... This is the way to go
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Last Edit: Oct 24, 2015 10:13:48 GMT by 60six
Some 9000's, a 900, an RX8 & a beetle
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Oct 24, 2015 10:21:25 GMT
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This could be the go if you can find a good one. As I recall they used to go pretty hard on the track.
A real sleeper I remember from the early '80s was a BMC 1300 belonging to an older guy I knew. It looked totally like a grandpa car but he'd done the motor up to Cooper S spec plus a bit. It was good for an honest 105 mph and gave many a V8 a fright.
I used to have my 1380cc A+ in the front of a Morris 1100. Fast, unassuming, especially during it's "flat black with red wheels" phase. Would beat V6 Commodores and the like off the line and you had to have something special to hang with it in the corners. That said, I wouldn't do one as a sleeper. The motor is a Mini engine, but to get it to fit nicely in the subframe meant keeping the original gearbox. It lasted for years of "enthusiastic" driving, but the thought was always when it would go bang, not if. That and the brakes were woeful and not the easiest thing to upgrade. Having had both a BMC1300 and Volvo 850T5R - go the Volvo. Or an 80's 2.6L Mitsubishi Sigma/Galant. Rwd, and with a little bit of breathing (read better carb and exhaust), they go well enough. Hi , I was just beginning to wonder if anyone was going to mention the sigma , but why go for the 2.6 , I have a 3.0 V6 on a 96 plate , thinking of buying doing something to it , going crazy this week and putting some front brake pads on it !!!!
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