mt2man
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,364
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Nov 20, 2014 11:11:49 GMT
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Hey all just making sure I try and keep my Dolomite as legal as possible, I'm planning an engine conversion but was also considering using sub frames too.
Looking at the DVLA website;
Chassis, monocoque bodyshell (body and chassis as one unit) or frame - original or new and unmodified (direct from manufacturer) 5
Suspension (front and back) - original 2
Axles (both) - original 2
Transmission - original 2
Steering assembly - original 2
Engine - original 1
But even if I can get the engine and sub frames in without modifying the body shell id essentially only have 5 points so it would require a IVA?
But if i simply installed just the engine id only lose 1 point, but id have to consider the rear diff being capable of the increase in power so ideally atleast id like to use the entire mx5 rear sub frame, suspension and diff. But then I would want to improve the brakes etc all round.
Ive seen many cars on here with uprated engines, different axles and suspension components, modified bodys and chassis etc. So how do you comply? Or do you just have friendly MOT stations? Haha
Jack
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kenb
Part of things
Posts: 604
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Nov 20, 2014 11:44:38 GMT
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Ah well you've hit the nail on the head there. Although there are many modified cars out there, based on the mainly Ford shows I do I'd say a vast majority of them are illegal technically because of the 8 points scenario, and I include one of my own builds in that.
The problem is how to enforce it. An MoT inspector cannot possibly know what was original and what wasn't on every car. With the inpending "classic" definition being forced upon us by the EU within the the next year or so as well, has also raised the same question. As yet no one has given an answer as to how that can be truly enforced either. Some modified's are more obvious than others, some are quite discreet.
In theory if you modify your car to below the 8 points you are "supposed" to declare it basically, so yes it should be IVA time or whatever its called this week.
If it were me I'd be looking at subtle ways of doing it, ie your axle, either fit a Ford one in there for which you can get stronger diffs for, or even changing just change the centre section of the casing so it takes Ford diffs. I'm sure that would be less work that trying to make a subframe fit. Just a thought there, that would make it pretty difficult to tell thats it been altered or changed.
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mt2man
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,364
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Nov 20, 2014 12:25:07 GMT
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Thanks for your reply, yeah I thought that might be the case.
Atleast the dolomite uses IRS so I could always fit the mx5 diff and get custom drive shafts built up so I can retain the suspension and stay within the points system I guess. It would be far better to use the entire mx5 running gear though, might have a chat with my mot station before carrying out any work and see what they think!
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Nov 20, 2014 12:58:53 GMT
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Thanks for your reply, yeah I thought that might be the case. Atleast the dolomite uses IRS so I could always fit the mx5 diff and get custom drive shafts built up so I can retain the suspension and stay within the points system I guess. It would be far better to use the entire mx5 running gear though, might have a chat with my mot station before carrying out any work and see what they think! IRS on a Dolomite ? I assume it's already been modified as no Dolomite came with anything other than a beam axle AFAIK |
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VIP
South East
Posts: 8,293
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Nov 20, 2014 13:05:20 GMT
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Or you could just declare the mods correctly and go through the IVA?
If you're going to spend a lot of money and skill making your ideal car, I don't see why spending another £600 on an IVA test should put you off.
'Most' MOT testers simply test what is put in front on them, they won't care if its not original, they'll simply test it to the MOT manual, however more and more cases of modified vehicles falling outside the 8-point system are being caught at MOT time.
Regardless of which, the MOT is the least of your worries. Have a bump in it and if an astute insurance assessor spots what's going on you'll be in much bigger trouble than a simple failed MOT. Loss of payout, driving an uninsured and un-registered vehicle on the public highway for starters.
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kenb
Part of things
Posts: 604
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Nov 20, 2014 13:14:53 GMT
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Thanks for your reply, yeah I thought that might be the case. Atleast the dolomite uses IRS so I could always fit the mx5 diff and get custom drive shafts built up so I can retain the suspension and stay within the points system I guess. It would be far better to use the entire mx5 running gear though, might have a chat with my mot station before carrying out any work and see what they think! IRS on a Dolomite ? I assume it's already been modified as no Dolomite came with anything other than a beam axle AFAIK Yea thats what I thought tbh, but I'm not a Triumph expert. |
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steveg
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,564
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Nov 20, 2014 13:55:41 GMT
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Did the early FWD cars have independant rear suspension a bit like the 2000 ?
I'm curious to know what car you have now.
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mt2man
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,364
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Nov 20, 2014 14:01:17 GMT
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My bad I didn't mean IRS I meant it doesn't have leaf springs, it does run springs. But there may be a way of using the diff inside of the dolomite axle and getting new shafts made up. But as said it might be easier to just look for a new rear axle that can handle the power properly.
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mt2man
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,364
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Nov 20, 2014 14:03:47 GMT
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If I were to retain the front suspension and install the mx5 engine and mx5 sub frame with mx5 diff and suspension would this still require an IVA?
Id rather not go down the IVA route as I think it would be very hard to get it through, ie sourcing the correct glass to meet regs etc etc.
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Nov 20, 2014 15:26:36 GMT
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A Sprint Axle can handle a lot of power so maybe no need to change the rear end.
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VIP
South East
Posts: 8,293
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Nov 20, 2014 15:33:52 GMT
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If I were to retain the front suspension and install the mx5 engine and mx5 sub frame with mx5 diff and suspension would this still require an IVA? Id rather not go down the IVA route as I think it would be very hard to get it through, ie sourcing the correct glass to meet regs etc etc. Nope, you've only got 7 points, 5 for the shell, 2 for the steering. Both front and rear axles/suspension need to be original to claim the points. |
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doobie
Part of things
Posts: 271
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Nov 20, 2014 16:29:28 GMT
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If it was me i would change the engine and gearbox and get a propshaft made to fit to the sprint axle. this means you can modify the suspension to improve the handling. Brakes are free so you can uprate them. I cannot see any advantage to fitting MX5 subframes as any handling advantage would be offset by a lot of extra weight. This keeps you within the 8 points as body, steering and axles gives you 9 points.
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mt2man
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,364
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Nov 20, 2014 17:30:42 GMT
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Might be a plan to just use the engine and gearbox then and just keep subframes for another project one day then! haha
If i were to fit a sprint axle would it still count as a modification and lose me points though because its not standard? Or because its essentially a triumph bolt on replacment it will be fine?
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doobie
Part of things
Posts: 271
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Nov 20, 2014 19:15:55 GMT
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i think it has the same casing but i would use your standard axle first and see if it breaks as the ratios match better
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mt2man
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,364
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Nov 20, 2014 20:35:23 GMT
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Yeah thats an idea, is the sprint and the standard 1850 axle the same pcd on the diff housings? Would be a pain having to get another prop made up when i needed to swap
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Nov 23, 2014 19:40:53 GMT
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A sprint axle is capable of handling a lot of power, lots of TR7 V8s running this axle with lots of BHP & torque. It is a straight swap in so no one would know.
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Seth
South East
MorrisOxford TriumphMirald HillmanMinx BorgwardIsabellaCombi
Posts: 15,513
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Nov 24, 2014 10:53:49 GMT
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There has been talk in the past about the European definitions of an 'original' car being complete with its original factory fitted components (ie not even later like for like replacements) but this would be completely unworkable as many of the components could be considered as service items, eg front struts, steering racks/boxes etc. So fitting a replacement bolt in axle from a different spec of the same car is highly unlikely to drop you points. Who could tell? The only people that might be expected to know the difference would be marque experts (Unless you told the internet what you'd done).
Are you fitting a turbo as part of this proposed engine swap? Non turbo 1.6 (99bhp at the back wheels) has yet to blow up the diff in our Herald but then these same basic diffs were used behind 2 litre straight sixes and people sometimes fit 2.5 sixes in Vitesses and GT6s....
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Follow your dreams or you might as well be a vegetable. |
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mt2man
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,364
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Nov 24, 2014 17:45:22 GMT
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Was looking at supercharges and this is the 1.8 (130bhp) I'd be aiming for 180+Bhp If the sprint axle is bolt on then I can't see it really being a problem points wise  |
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