ferny
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 984
Club RR Member Number: 13
|
mx5 enginesferny
@ferny
Club Retro Rides Member 13
|
Mar 10, 2013 18:48:46 GMT
|
Hi all, I'm new here but spot a few faces I recognise.  I'd been meaning to swap out the engine in my Herald to a Ford unit but I've now changed my mind and will be going for a Mazda lump. Ok, it's not as powerful out of the box but comes complete with its factory designed and mated gearbox and for me that's a huge bonus as I want to do the swap as quickly and cheaply as possible. I was aware of an auto lump in a Herald or Spitfire but didn't realise a few other people had done it until I started looking through this site. I've read the threads by seth and Franknstein which have been really helpful in seeing how to mount it all but they've both gone for the 1.6lt lumps and I was wondering if they'd tell me why, if they see this post. I've done some research (which is never enough!) and I think a pre-94 1.8lt lump and box is the best combination. Rumour says it's stronger, has more power and the box is the safest. When I do eventually start to play with it only the clutch is an issue up to about 250bhp and then after that it's stuff like conrods. I was wondering how much anyone else can chime in with their opinions on the different versions. And also how easy it will be to get it running when ripped out of the Mazda. I plan on using the loom, exhaust, intakes etc straight out of the other car which is another main reason for dropping the Ford idea. I think after 1994 or so on UK car the immobiliser becomes an issue? |
| |
Last Edit: Mar 10, 2013 18:49:09 GMT by ferny
|
|
|
|
Seth
South East
MorrisOxford TriumphMirald HillmanMinx BorgwardIsabellaCombi
Posts: 15,515
|
|
Mar 10, 2013 22:42:33 GMT
|
Hi Ferny, Our Herald (well its my wife's car really) still retains its standard swing axle back end -with good shocks and a lowering block - and has an ordinary 3.89 diff. We were not looking for an out and out performance option but a modern + 5 speed box and so the 1.6 suited us perfectly. Power is more than a factory 2l Vitesse but torque is lower than the six pot so the stock back end has put up with it well. Obviously the engine is much lighter than the six cylinder Triumph donk. The research I did showed up a problem with the crank pulley/nose on the early 1.6s so we got a later one. With any Mazda lump, I think that fitting it such that it is in a good spot for the steering rack/cross member/height etc. means that the Mazda cam angle sensor will want to be in the same place as some of the original heater. The heater will need moving/modifying (or removing altogether if its just a summer weekend fun car) to make room. I got around this problem by not using the factory injection or ignition systems and just blanked the hole the sensor was in.  There are several people playing with this engine on here, not just for Triumph use, who intend to keep all the wiring as you do so keep an eye out for those threads. The electrical side of it is not something I can help with. |
| |
Follow your dreams or you might as well be a vegetable. |
|
ferny
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 984
Club RR Member Number: 13
|
mx5 enginesferny
@ferny
Club Retro Rides Member 13
|
|
|
|
Hi, Seth. for some reason I thought yours was the auto I knew of but I'm wondering if that's Andy Dann now. Nice bit of info about the heater as well as I was wonding how/why you kept yours when others haven't. I'm ok with losing it as it hardly works since fitting an Mx5 radiator a few years ago. Have you seen Chris' T6 build over at CT? He's fitted an after market matrix so that's an option for me.
Where did you get your engine from? I'm going to phone a Mazda breaker in Bicester later.
|
| |
|
|
Seth
South East
MorrisOxford TriumphMirald HillmanMinx BorgwardIsabellaCombi
Posts: 15,515
|
|
|
|
I bought a complete car, with MOT for a little over £700. They can be had for even less now, sub £500 sometimes. If you have the space it is probably the cheapest way of getting all the parts you need and knowing that they work. Also means you can take your time removing the wiring if you're going to be using it. Our heater works quite well as its a DG one not a Smiths. The feed for it now is a bit restrictive though so its not quite as hot as it once was. |
| |
Follow your dreams or you might as well be a vegetable.
|
|
ferny
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 984
Club RR Member Number: 13
|
mx5 enginesferny
@ferny
Club Retro Rides Member 13
|
|
|
|
My Smiths used to melt your feet! Then I found out the rubber hose under attaching the under manifold pipe to the heater was actually making 90° shaped turds rather than letting water pass through it. This new Mazda radiator I'm using is far too efficient for the engine though so the gauge never moves off the bottom mark.
Been thinking about buying a usable doner so I can test it all and get used to it. Would also be handy to strip the Herald over a weekend whilst still having a car to use to throw curse word in. I'd assume breaking it for seats and wings would give a nice return as well! Just need to find the space to do it... and see how much it'd cost on insurance. Had a little touch in the Acclaim on a rally last year which required the other car to need £2.8k worth of work (apparently...). The Acclaim only needs a dash of filler.
|
| |
|
|
andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,164
|
|
Mar 13, 2013 11:43:48 GMT
|
|
Ferny, if you do get a MX5 engine and box, couldn't get some dimensions for it please? Thinking of one for the girlfiends Sprite, guess I'll need the usual measurements, also the distance of the gear lever from the engine block?
Thanks, have promised her it'll be running again by the summer, luckily, never said which summer!
|
| |
|
|
Nathan
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 5,626
Club RR Member Number: 1
|
mx5 enginesNathan
@bgtmidget7476
Club Retro Rides Member 1
|
Mar 13, 2013 13:31:46 GMT
|
|
Seth is right, I'm currently going through this conversion but into a MGB GT.
I opted for the whole car, again that way its all running etc. In this case Ive just lifted the engine, labelled the Loom (regardless of the parts I'm using or not) then taken it out as a complete lot.
Unsure on the rest and whats the best route, I'm keeping the injection etc. So ATM I've reconnected the loom to the engine so then I can pick out the wiring thats not required (Lights etc).
|
| |
|
|
ferny
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 984
Club RR Member Number: 13
|
mx5 enginesferny
@ferny
Club Retro Rides Member 13
|
|
|
|
Andy - Don sent me a load of photos of the type-9 fitted to his GT6 and I've got the dimensions of the type-9 and Mx5 gearboxes. Do you want me to e-mail them all to you? It's not the exact info you need but it helped me get an idea of things, as did the photos in Seth and Franknstein's threads.
BGTMIDGET7476 - I'll have a read of your thread then! Quick note, the first link in your signature doesn't work.
|
| |
|
|
andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,164
|
|
Mar 14, 2013 11:54:37 GMT
|
Andy - Don sent me a load of photos of the type-9 fitted to his GT6 and I've got the dimensions of the type-9 and Mx5 gearboxes. Do you want me to e-mail them all to you? It's not the exact info you need but it helped me get an idea of things, as did the photos in Seth and Franknstein's threads. Yes please. |
| |
|
|
ferny
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 984
Club RR Member Number: 13
|
mx5 enginesferny
@ferny
Club Retro Rides Member 13
|
Mar 14, 2013 17:26:17 GMT
|
|
Pm me your address.
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 14, 2013 17:46:48 GMT
|
|
Just to let you know, there's no such thing as a pre-94 1.8, Mazda only launched the 1.8 in 1994 as a power upgrade from the 1.6. There isn't much to pick between early 1.6 engines and the 1.8 engines. The 1.6 is more revvy but drops off towards the top end while the 1.8 has more torque and a higher top end.
|
| |
|
|
RobinJI
Posted a lot
"Driven by the irony that only being shackled to the road could ever I be free"
Posts: 2,995
|
|
Mar 14, 2013 20:31:44 GMT
|
One thing that's worth bearing in mind is that the standard management leaves a lot of room for improvement, so half decent gains can be had just from well set-up carbs or an aftermarket ECU. This is what happened when I put a Megasquirt on my '90 1.6, a bit of an increase in the peaks and a much flatter torque curve (yellow's before, blue's after). This was still running a base map for the ignition, so there was still a fair bit more to be had too:  |
| |
|
|
ferny
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 984
Club RR Member Number: 13
|
mx5 enginesferny
@ferny
Club Retro Rides Member 13
|
|
|
Just to let you know, there's no such thing as a pre-94 1.8, Mazda only launched the 1.8 in 1994 as a power upgrade from the 1.6. There isn't much to pick between early 1.6 engines and the 1.8 engines. The 1.6 is more revvy but drops off towards the top end while the 1.8 has more torque and a higher top end. I realised the error when I did some more research.  Quick question then as you seem to know them. One of the main reasons for going the 1.8 route is because I've read that it's a stronger unit as is the gearbox and seeing as I hope to up the power somewhat later on it makes sense to have the best base. Or, is it all so similar that there's no need to worry? One thing that's worth bearing in mind is that the standard management leaves a lot of room for improvement, so half decent gains can be had just from well set-up carbs or an aftermarket ECU. This is what happened when I put a Megasquirt on my '90 1.6, a bit of an increase in the peaks and a much flatter torque curve (yellow's before, blue's after). This was still running a base map for the ignition, so there was still a fair bit more to be had too: That's my plan later. The original idea of the Zetec lump would have used Mega or even Microsquirt but it's another cost and time factor which is again the reason for the Mazda lump. Dunno if linking offsite is ok but if it is take a look through these two threads for Megasquirt goodness! club.triumph.org.uk/cgi-bin/forum10/Blah.pl/Blah.pl?m-1321968625/s-0/club.triumph.org.uk/cgi-bin/forum10/Blah.pl/Blah.pl?m-1345079849/ |
| |
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2013 10:05:47 GMT
|
|
not sure how much help this is but the mazda 323 gtr (turbo) is the same engine more or less with all uprated internals as standard. just mounted differently in engine bay to a different 4wd box.
it'd be an expensive option though finding one would also be hard.
the 323 gtx (turbo) is also same but without uprated internals.
|
| |
84 mazda 323 gt (twr) b6t engine
85 mazda rx7 s3 12a
90 mazda 323 estate
90 mazda 323 estate (for the mrs ;-) )
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2013 11:49:01 GMT
|
|
If he want's 250 hp then he will be spending mega anyway it isn't as easy as ticking a box to get 140hp/litre, best way for that power is some form of forced induction
Issue with the GTX (1.6 B6T) or GTR (1.8 BPT) is the distributor runs to the rear of the motor, so you need to run the MX5 coil pack anyway. But they will get the power easily . I had a Laser TX3 4WD with the B6T and had 240 easy, actually 280, and that was through a 36mm restrictor
With a little more thought a standard MX5 motor with a ebay turbo and after market computer would be the best way to go
|
| |
Last Edit: Mar 16, 2013 11:51:29 GMT by notsoswift
Contrary to popular opinion, I do have mechanical sympathy, I always feel sorry for the cars I drive.
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2013 15:35:15 GMT
|
|
yep, worst trouble not being the price but finding a gtr engine.
id agree mx5 engine and turbo it. plentifull of them around at the moment at a good price too.
|
| |
84 mazda 323 gt (twr) b6t engine
85 mazda rx7 s3 12a
90 mazda 323 estate
90 mazda 323 estate (for the mrs ;-) )
|
|
craig1010cc
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,993
Club RR Member Number: 35
|
mx5 enginescraig1010cc
@craig1010cc
Club Retro Rides Member 35
|
Mar 18, 2013 18:45:37 GMT
|
|
Gearboxes on the 1.6 is the same as the 1.8's, the stronger bit is the diff (if you get the LSD its a torsen rather than the viscous on the 1.6's and is worth more). Getting a 1.8 will have some advantages if you're just using the engine/box as the brakes are bigger (so an upgrade for the 1.6's) and there is extra bracing you can sell off too. Both will turbo or supercharge fine (although you'll need aftermarket ECU to do it properly), but the clutch will give up before 250 BHP (but uprated ones aren't that expensive). If you get a complete, but rusty one that's got a few goodies, you could well make your money back on it (or very close to it), I looked at a rusty uk 1.8 with a few months MOT left on it that was up for £400 with 6 months tax on it.
|
| |
|
|
