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Feb 26, 2013 20:40:07 GMT
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1980 Vauxhall Cavalier MK1 1970 Mobyleete 40T custom 1978 Mobylette 50V 1965 Moulton Standard 1979 Raleigh Grifter custom 1980 Raleigh Grifter 1982 Raleigh Grifter BMX custom 1982 Raleigh Bomber 1987 Strida
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Paul
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,907
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Feb 26, 2013 20:47:58 GMT
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Why did they "pay £220 from America" to have weird adaptors made wrong when you can buy 4x100 to 5x120 off the shelf?
Admittedly even the examples of those that I've seen look a bit shady...
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Feb 26, 2013 20:53:12 GMT
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Not necessarily. He's still running 4 studs, albeit in a different location on the wheels, I was going to do the same myself on a set of wheels last year. As long as everything is torqued up properly and centred correctly (which it seems is the case seeing as the spacers are hubcentric) then everything should be fine. The dummy 5th stud/nut is just to stop people pointing out that there's one missing.
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Feb 26, 2013 20:58:33 GMT
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I don't see a huge problem with these, sure its a bit of a bodge but it's not unsafe because they're centred correctly, as said above, the studs just hold the wheel on, the hubcentric ring does most of the work.
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1966 MK1 Cortina 1971 Hillman Super Imp 1985 Volvo 360 GLEi 1986 Volvo 340 1.7 1990 Mercedes 190e 2.0 1993 Peugeot 205 STDT
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Death trap wheelsHARDCORE
@hardcore
Club Retro Rides Member 190
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Feb 26, 2013 21:05:50 GMT
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Ermagherd. Think of the kittens.
(looks ok to me)
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Feb 26, 2013 22:26:50 GMT
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Technically on a four stud location the wheel is only held on by one fixing at any one time during revolutions.There has to be an issue therefore with the extended gap between the two "wide apart" fixings
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toreno
Part of things
Posts: 385
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Feb 26, 2013 22:32:00 GMT
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Technically on a four stud location the wheel is only held on by one fixing at any one time during revolutions.There has to be an issue therefore with the extended gap between the two "wide apart" fixings i agree preassure applied on the point between the two widest studs during cornering is having a levering effect on the two studs risking ripping them out and i wouldnt want to be in it if that happened
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Feb 26, 2013 22:34:48 GMT
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Yeah, I too think that's not the best approach... The clamping force is not applied evenly - not good. But still better thn some things I've seen. Funny notion: I once took my Mini to the TÜV with only 4 wheels nuts on the front (resp. 2 per wheel). I sirvived, but I had to take the bus to get the missing nuts and fit them prior to the test ;D Passed without problems And neither kittens nor nuns had been harmed that day. So - whilst it is maybe safer than it looks - I for once could never live with peace of mind with such a solution...
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mat91
Part of things
Posts: 399
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Feb 26, 2013 22:45:51 GMT
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I personally don't see the problem there's still 4 bolts holding them on and there hub centric, that slight gap between the studs won't make a blind bit of difference, in my opinion anyway
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The stupid is everywhere
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Feb 26, 2013 23:01:13 GMT
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Vibration is an evil force and not to be underestimated - alloys & steel are more flexible than one would assume. I can imagine that uneven clamping CAN cause problems in this application.
But our physics teacher was from belgium and spoke mostly french and a largly free interpretation of my mothers tonque. Andgenerally had more interest in the protection of the plant-live in the classroom than actuall physics - and I had to spend a lot of time outside the door. So what do I know - I could be wrong ;D ;D
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Feb 26, 2013 23:15:16 GMT
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I'd rock them too, although they would have to be with some wheels that were worth running adaptors for
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,835
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Death trap wheelsstealthstylz
@stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member 174
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Feb 26, 2013 23:54:30 GMT
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My brother in law drove round for 3 years with only 4 bolts in each of the rear wheels of his 5 stud Vectra due to 2 snapping the first time he took the wheels off. They didn't fall off/wobble/kill kittens.
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RobinJI
Posted a lot
"Driven by the irony that only being shackled to the road could ever I be free"
Posts: 2,995
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Technically on a four stud location the wheel is only held on by one fixing at any one time during revolutions.There has to be an issue therefore with the extended gap between the two "wide apart" fixings Technically any radial/vertical and axially-rotational loading on the wheel's dealt with by the static friction between the back face of the wheel and the hub flange/brake drum or disc created by the tension placed in the bolts from their tightening, this mechanism won't particularly care where the bolts are. I guess you're talking about axial loading, which is felt as a tension within the wheel bolts, assuming the wheel to act as a lever with the edge of the mounting face acting as it's fulcrum. This could be considered to be mostly acting on the furthest bolt from the point acting as the fulcrum, but while the magnitude of loading caused by this mechanism would be pulsed on each bolt, all 4 bolts would remain in tension at all times, it would simply be of varying intensity. With the unevenly spaced bolts there is an area of rotation where the fulcrum of this lever is placed closer to the furthest bolt, resulting in an increase in leverage on it, which will cause an increase in it's elongation under loading. In combination with the greater degree of rotation of the lever this will result in more strain also being placed on the other bolts. Although this is unlikely to snap or loosen a bolt in its self, it will increase the stress ratio of the cyclic loading it's placed under, reducing it's fatigue life. That said, most wheel bolts are steel and there is a very real possibility that the safety factors allowed by the manufacturer would keep the bolt within a loading range where it features an essentially infinite fatigue life. Make of that what you will, but my opinion is that on a Jetta, running skinny tyres with not much grip, probably with a suspension set-up that also doesn't exactly aid grip, they'd more than likely be fine with whatever you could chuck at them as long as you were using relatively new and decent quality wheel bolts. I wouldn't want to use them on a well set-up track car running slicks though. I'd be keeping a close eye on the wheels central section to make sure that the uneven loading wasn't doing anything bad to it. With a minimalist wheel with any cutouts to act as stress raisers I could see it potentially causing cracking in the wheel, although I'd see that as very unlikely, especially given how solid and uniform these wheels centre is. Basically if it was my car, I'd run them occasionally with no worries about them breaking if I had to swerve/brake suddenly, but I'd probably change the bolts periodically and vary which hole had the dummy bolt in it. I wouldn't want to use them in anger too often or for high mileages.
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VIP
South East
Posts: 8,293
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Was just about to post the same, Robin, you beat me to it...
[/cough]
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hmm, 144 degrees between wheel studs as opposed to 72, a larger angle than even a 3 stud vehicle, 120 degrees, evenly spaced which is the important bit...
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Feb 27, 2013 11:29:56 GMT
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Every time a hubcentric post comes up I write down the same bit of maths, concluding in the fact that if there was a single M12 bolt in the middle of the wheel it would provide enough clamping force to hold up the entire car weight.
BUT, it has to be in the MIDDLE of the wheel, as posted many times above the leverage applied to those studs is well beyond what I would be happy with.
Infact I would go as far as to say, I hope he has good public liability insurance selling those adaptors to the general public. I would not like to be involved with it!
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EmDee
Club Retro Rides Member
Committer of Autrocities.
Posts: 5,920
Club RR Member Number: 108
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Death trap wheelsEmDee
@emdee
Club Retro Rides Member 108
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Feb 27, 2013 11:54:44 GMT
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This thread is great. Starting a discussion about an item in an ebay advert is a great idea and bound to go well. I would like to go on record saying that I personally think these adaptors will kill everyone within a 6 foot radius.
Also, what Robin said about fulcrums and axially-rotational loading, static friction and axial loading causing fatigue and elongation under loading friction. Fulcrum.
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Feb 27, 2013 12:05:38 GMT
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Thanks Robin! So my instinct was right But I don't understand what it's got to do with outdated russian fighter jets!? ;D
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Feb 27, 2013 15:10:18 GMT
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My brother in law drove round for 3 years with only 4 bolts in each of the rear wheels of his 5 stud Vectra due to 2 snapping the first time he took the wheels off. They didn't fall off/wobble/kill kittens. When I got my sierra one of the rear studs had snapped so the wheel was only held on by 3 nuts, no idea how long it had been like that but it stayed that way for another 10 months. I'm happy to report that there was also no kittens killed here and no instances of wobbling or falling off.
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Feb 27, 2013 17:10:35 GMT
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I'm supprised this thread is still here... Theres nothing retro going on. And its not in the tech section
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