andyborris
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Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,167
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Jan 13, 2013 10:18:10 GMT
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I have a BMW M52 engine fitted, the cooling system has a BMW E30 radiator and a after-market header tank.
The header tank is mounted high at the back of the engine bay, higher then the engine.
What pressure radiator cap should I use?
The engine had a 2 Bar cap when it was in a 523i, the radiator a 1.4 bar cap in the 325i and it's got a Triumph 7psi cap at the moment!
What's 1.4 bar in psi? All the info I’ve found so far is very misleading, with talk about absolute and relative pressures!
Simple explain please someone........
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Jan 13, 2013 10:35:23 GMT
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1 bar is about 14.5 psi, you can ignore all the relative/absolute stuff in your situation.
If you are confident that the rest of the cooling system (hoses etc) will take the pressure, I'd personally go with the 1.4 bar cap. The higher pressure cap will allow the water to get hotter before it boils but the higher pressure will put more stress on the hose/heater matrix etc.
If there is any doubt as to the rest of the system, stick with the 7psi cap - that way if it does boil over it'll do it gracefully rather than firing a hose off or popping your heater matrix and squirting boiling water all over your legs (mk2 golf owners will know what I'm talking about)
The pressure will only build up when the engine is really hot, so if the engine is fairly well cooled anyway you could well never even reach 7psi.
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squonk
Part of things
Posts: 858
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Jan 13, 2013 11:03:40 GMT
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The rating of the cap depends on the temperature the engine should run at. As temperature increases so does the pressure. However, the curve is not linear. At 100°C the pressure of water will be around 1 bar (or 14.5 psi). Typically a modern petrol engine should run at between 85° and 95°C for optimum efficiency so there should be no need for a cap rated above 1 bar. I would suspect that a 7 psi (0.5 bar) cap will result in constant loss of coolant unless the engine is running too cool (in which case the cooling system is too efficient and preventing the engine from operating at its optimum temperature). If it is blowing coolant out of a cap rated at 1 bar it suggests that the engine may not have enough cooling capacity. If the engine is being over cooled it would be worth looking into changing the thermostat for one with a higher opening temperature.
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Last Edit: Jan 13, 2013 11:12:35 GMT by squonk
2004 Chevrolet Avalanche Z71 2005 Mercedes CLK320 Cabriolet 1996 Mercedes C180 Elegance Auto Saloon 1996 Rover 620Ti (Dead fuel pump) 1992 Toyota HiLux Surf 1987 Range Rover Vogue (Rusty) 1992 Range Rover Vogue SE (More Rusty) 2006 Chrysler Grand Voyager 2008 Corsa 1.4 Design
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andyborris
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Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,167
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Jan 13, 2013 11:54:59 GMT
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Engine hasn't really run at all yet, first start showed up a leaking rad and that the cooling fan wasn't cooling!
New rad and a cooling fan that works and as the engine got up to temp (and past to see if the fan worked, it did!), it spat a drop of coolant out.
I suspect that system was slightly overfilled, because it didn't chuck all the coolant out, just sort of found it's level in the header tank, (which appears to be level with the highest hose in the system), would this imply that I can fit a higher pressure cap?
May try a 20 psi cap......? That's less then 1.4 bar, isn't it? I don't want to go to high and blow the heater core, it's 35 years old and to change the core I need to take the engine out!
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squonk
Part of things
Posts: 858
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Jan 13, 2013 12:13:36 GMT
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In that case play safe and use a 1 bar (14.5 psi) cap. Better for the cap to release than to blow out the heater matrix. There really is no need to go any higher if the cooling system is working properly.
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2004 Chevrolet Avalanche Z71 2005 Mercedes CLK320 Cabriolet 1996 Mercedes C180 Elegance Auto Saloon 1996 Rover 620Ti (Dead fuel pump) 1992 Toyota HiLux Surf 1987 Range Rover Vogue (Rusty) 1992 Range Rover Vogue SE (More Rusty) 2006 Chrysler Grand Voyager 2008 Corsa 1.4 Design
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andyborris
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Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,167
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Jan 13, 2013 15:10:57 GMT
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In that case play safe and use a 1 bar (14.5 psi) cap. Better for the cap to release than to blow out the heater matrix. There really is no need to go any higher if the cooling system is working properly. Thanks, good advice. I'll start low and work my way up ;D!
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
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Club RR Member Number: 170
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Jan 13, 2013 19:03:26 GMT
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I would go with what the donor car came with and pay particular attention to your coolant hoses. With a higher pressure the coolant is less likely to boil over. If I am not mistaken are not the alloy BMW 6 pots known for being a headache to work with if they boil over?
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andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,167
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Jan 14, 2013 18:21:41 GMT
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If I am not mistaken are not the alloy BMW 6 pots known for being a headache to work with if they boil over? Yes they are, but at £200 a pop I wouldn't bother lifting the head! After a nights sleep on the matter, decided to stick with the 7 psi cap, a new one though. Worried about blowing the rad core if I increase the pressure too much, if the car boils easily, at least it be boiling at a high temp and I can always increase the rad cap psi. Overheating in traffic is just a cool down and wait till the traffic jam is gone, while blowing the heater will mean a trip on a truck and dropping the engine to fix!
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squonk
Part of things
Posts: 858
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Jan 14, 2013 18:30:40 GMT
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Do you have a low coolant level warning system? If so, keep an eye on it. At 7 psi it's possible that all the coolant will get pushed out the overflow and you may not realise it until the damage is done.
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2004 Chevrolet Avalanche Z71 2005 Mercedes CLK320 Cabriolet 1996 Mercedes C180 Elegance Auto Saloon 1996 Rover 620Ti (Dead fuel pump) 1992 Toyota HiLux Surf 1987 Range Rover Vogue (Rusty) 1992 Range Rover Vogue SE (More Rusty) 2006 Chrysler Grand Voyager 2008 Corsa 1.4 Design
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andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,167
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Jan 15, 2013 19:04:01 GMT
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Do you have a low coolant level warning system? If so, keep an eye on it. At 7 psi it's possible that all the coolant will get pushed out the overflow and you may not realise it until the damage is done. Unfortunately, no. A good idea, not sure how I could add one to my system though.
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Jan 15, 2013 19:14:47 GMT
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Alot of modern header tanks have them built in though some (VAG that I known of) use some sort of conductivity device rather than a simple switch, so not quite sure how you "read" those?
You'd probably be ok to 13 psi, later Triumphs had those without any obvious system changes. When I fixed the Vitesse heater matrix I pressure tested it using mains water pressure which is just under 3 Bar here. It creaked a bit, but held!
Also quite a few Triumphs of that era use a double seal cap and unpressurised catch tank which allows water out when hot and then sucks it back in when cold. Vitesse and PI both have it - works ok.
Provided the rads big enough and it holds the right temperature it'll never be a problem anyway.
Cheers
Nick
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend) 1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing) 1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,167
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Jan 15, 2013 20:07:20 GMT
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I was looking at kits for the MGF/TF, one is non-invasive magnetic one, how well it'll work on a stainless header tank, I've no idea! homepage.ntlworld.com/tim.fixit/capy/Installation.htmlHaving said that, the water loss won't be sudden and the header tank vents into the nearside wheel arch, so a steaming wheel arch should be a clue! If I do find I'm losing water, I'll up the cap pressure.
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andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,167
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Jan 15, 2013 20:14:20 GMT
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And on thinking about it, the header tank did expel some water, but that was when I deliberately run the temp up to see if the rad fan would work.
But the water loss stopped of it's own accord, while the car was still hot enough to operate the fan and the level hasn't dropped any further, so I'm hoping that means the coolant system works OK, at least when the ambient temp is around 4c!
The girlfiend is hoping we can use the car in a warmer clime too!
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Jan 15, 2013 21:06:13 GMT
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These engines are well known pigs to bleed,you've actually improved the system by having a high up header tank!!!
In the e36 they take 11.5 litres of coolant and it takes up to 2 hrs to bleed it through well,even then you still seem to need to leave the cap off overnight.
I swapped mine to a m50 motor as I got fed up with the constant cooling issues and I got ripped off by a "mates" poor repair. Ran fine since.
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