Paul
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Hi all,
Had a bit of a day with the Mk1 Mx5 today - it's been a gem up until now, hasn't put a foot wrong.
Start and cut out yesterday - I didn't have time to inspect so I left it.
Today I went out to have a look - checked fuses, fuel, spark...fine.
Cleaned the plugs and, after much cranking and persuasion, it came to life. Now it seems to be running, but much noisier than before.
I know that MX-5s have a history of noisy tappets and running for years like this but wanted other opinions - I know we have a few owners on here...so please have a listen (ignore the fan belt!). Would a decent oil flush and replacement do the trick do you think? Or is there something more sinister afoot...?
I suppose it's worth adding that there's a really minor (like a dozen drops since Summer) oil leak coming from somewhere...I haven't established where yet.
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bl1300
Posted a lot
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Ouch that does not sound good!
Can you tell roughly where that knocking sound is coming from? Top or bottom end?
A stephoscope will help you identify where the noise is coming from whatever happens though that engine is going to need some work done. Try not to rev it too much or run it more than you have to though it could give you more work.
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Current fleet.
1967 DAF 44
1974 VW Beetle 1303s
1975 Triumph Spitfire MkIV
1988 VW LT45 Beavertail
1998 Volvo V70 2.5
1959 Fordson Dexta
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Sounds like the usual tappets to me. My mums sounds like that for 10 minutes 50% of the time after you start it, sometimes it doesn't go away, but usually it does. It's done that for a couple of years.
Get the engine nice and warm, sling in a tub of engine flushand run it around the block for 15 miles or so and it'll more than likely sort it out for a few months or so.
Be sure to change the oil and filter for fresh stuff afterwords though, the engine flush thins the oil out so it's no good long term
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Last Edit: Jan 2, 2013 18:11:18 GMT by cobblers
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Does sound tappety - IIRC Bruces MX5 was tappety but quietened down after a flush and oil change. Also sounds like there's a slightly deeper tap or slapping noise, which sounds like a loose cam belt. I'd whip the cover off and check the tension on the belt - and if you don't know the history put a belt kit on it anyway. It's a non-interference engine but the hassle of getting a car recovered after a breakdown makes me prefer preventative maintenance.  |
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Sounds a little like mine used to.
Is it losing any water? Check the water pump, the cam belt and the tensioners.
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Koos
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Paul
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The engine sounds worse in that video than it actually does...it was filmed in the garage and I think the sound's bouncing off the walls and the door. I don't think it's a full on death rattle yet.
Cheers for the advice - it just seems a little suspicious that it's only happened after this non-start.
I've ordered a cam cover gasket and a couple of Mazda oil filters as I think that's what might have caused the original non-start and plug fouling...when I get the cover off I'll check the cam belt too.
4 litres of 5w 30 is only a tenner at Halfrauds, I've got 2 bottles reserved for tomorrow, along with some engine flush...will report back!
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Sounds like tappets.give it a flush maybe use wynns HLA treatment.
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Ginetta G15 BMW K1100 conversion Sold
Mk1 Mx5 on ITB'S Sold
TVR Chimaera 400 supercharged
MR2 Red Roadster 2ZZ
Bee*R 324 Skyline
95 Cherokee Jeep
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mike32
Part of things
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I've got one that sounds like that, 5 mins with a long screwdriver as a stethoscope and I think it is the water pump. Mine started after the car boiled over in a traffic jam on the m25, will be lifting the head and fitting a new waterpump and belt kit sometime in the next few weeks.
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whatever happens though that engine is going to need some work done. Yep, better pull the head off for a rebuild and maybe whip the bottom end out too for some new shells.   As James (VileRug) says, the Dirtbag was a little rattly upon start-up when I first got it, but a decent flush and new oil/filter and it was completely rattle free. Mine was a 1.6 but that engine looks like a 1.8...I'm not sure to what extent they suffer from the HLA tapping? It's an MX5 trait...but easy to sort and nothing to worry about. As for the oil leak, you'd better be careful....if left unattended, the head could fall off*. I'd sort that out as a matter of priority. * As diagnosed on KFW's truck by an expert. |
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That ticking is a tappet, they're a curse word for sticking tappets if you put curse word oil in (Magnashite fooks them up too), that deeper noise sounds a lot worse though, unless it's just an echo from the walls on the video.
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bl1300
Posted a lot
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I could hear tappets but I can here something with a far deeper note that warrants investigation. Hence suggesting using a stephoscope to pinpoint the source of the knocking.
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Current fleet.
1967 DAF 44
1974 VW Beetle 1303s
1975 Triumph Spitfire MkIV
1988 VW LT45 Beavertail
1998 Volvo V70 2.5
1959 Fordson Dexta
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,195
Club RR Member Number: 170
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I shall be honest that does sound a little louder than tappets! But I would still go ahead with an engine flush and oil change. On my Lupo it helped quieten it down once the car warmed up. When was the last time the car was serviced? Has the car ever been warmed up to full operating temperature? What oil and how much of it was used last time? In my Porsche it had a tap which initially sounded like a tappet (they have massive tappets in them and if left for a while the engine can sound horrific when started up), but unfortunately it was far more sinister  . |
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* As diagnosed on KFW's truck by an expert. Wait...What? Story? |
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Paul
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When was the last time the car was serviced? Has the car ever been warmed up to full operating temperature? What oil and how much of it was used last time? I've never serviced the car (1.8 btw), although the previous owner was a stickler for maintenance...one of those guys who had about 40 years worth of MG badges in the garage and pictures of himself next to it etc. etc. It's done probably 3000 miles since I bought it, hasn't gone far over Christmas but seemed to be running fine before the cold, wet snap. That said, it's been perma-stored in the garage. Previous owner had recently done an oil change using either 10w 30 or 5w 30. He was quite insistent that he'd followed manufacturer's spec. Here's a video I took this morning - started first time (!) she's been once around the block, but not fully warmed up yet. Deliberately took this one outside to avoid any echoing off the walls... Thought I'd sold my diesel car All this talk of head rebuilds and new bottom end shells sounds way beyond my capabilities... I could get a stephoscope but, frankly, I wouldn't know what I was looking at. See there's a 1.8 engine f/s on the south coast and not a million miles from me... |
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bl1300
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That second vid is far clearer you've definatly got a lot of top end tapping but there is something else there as well that I can hear with a far deeper tone.
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Current fleet.
1967 DAF 44
1974 VW Beetle 1303s
1975 Triumph Spitfire MkIV
1988 VW LT45 Beavertail
1998 Volvo V70 2.5
1959 Fordson Dexta
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Paul
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,909
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To my untrained ear I'm totally distracted by all the top end rattling...would this lower rumble be consistent with big end shells in your opinion?
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It's not a rumble - it's a deeper tapping. Still sounds more like a loose belt than a big end to me. There might be a bit of variation in the combustion note, but a loose belt and sticky tappet will do that anyway. Don't panic - just do the flush and oil change, check the belt tension (just start the engine with the top belt cover off and see if it's flapping up and down between the cam pulleys - it shouldn't) and see where you are then. As for the stethoscope, they are useful, but a long screwdriver's's nearly as good. With the engine running touch the tip on various (stationary  ) parts of the engine, and then put your ear against the handle. You'll hear whetever noise is being caused at that location on the engine more clearly than everything else. On the cam cover you'll probably be able to hear that sharp, high-pitched, regular tapping. That's a valve lifter. On the belt cover, you might hear a deeper, less regular slapping - which would be the belt. Down on the side of the block you might hear a deep, powerful, regular kocking - which would be a big end. However, you also have to learn to filter out the noise of combustion - and if you don't know what a healthy engine sounds like you don't really stand a chance. If you're worried, big ends get worse with engine load - a video taken outside but with revving would help diagnose that. Don't just blip the throttle, open it wide for as long as you can without over-revving the engine before letting it return to idle. Even if there is a worn big end, it's unlikely to grenade itself there, and the damage is already done. If it's not a big end, there's nothing to worry about. |
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Last Edit: Jan 3, 2013 15:08:48 GMT by jrevillug
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Sounds like sticky tappets to me. They can all suffer from it to a degree. Sometimes when mine does it i stop the engine wait a few seconds restart and nine times out of ten the rattles gone.
Put a can of wyns engine flush in there then change to a good quality oil and see what happens.
This pretty much stopped it completely on mine, though sometimes its still there for a few seconds on start up.
I would be very surprised if it anything worse than tappets. Try posting on MX5 nuts or the owners club.
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Paul
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Well thankfully it seems the simplest solution was also the correct one - put a can of Wynns in, drove the 4 mile round trip to my lockup for some axle stands (sorry I didn't pop in Mel!) and even after 5 minutes the chatter had quieted massively.
Changed the oil and filter (about 3 litres of really nasty looking oil came out - but nothing more than bubbles in it!) and, apart from a tiny bit of chatter as the oil filter was filling up (I guess - I tried to pre-oil it but spilled half of it back on meself!) it's sounding much, much smoother.
All the other parts I ordered - valve cover gasket, cambelt etc - arrived today so will get on with those this afternoon. Although I'm going to stop for a cup of tea.
As an aside I found some OTHER problems whilst I was under there...but I will start a separate thread about them.
Cheers guys!
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[*]
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) parts of the engine, and then put your ear against the handle. You'll hear whetever noise is being caused at that location on the engine more clearly than everything else. On the cam cover you'll probably be able to hear that sharp, high-pitched, regular tapping. That's a valve lifter. On the belt cover, you might hear a deeper, less regular slapping - which would be the belt. Down on the side of the block you might hear a deep, powerful, regular kocking - which would be a big end.
