mt2man
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,364
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Sept 27, 2012 11:56:14 GMT
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Right I'm in need of advise, i recently bought a Fiat Seicento that wasnt running and thought it was simply a broken cambelt (non interferance so wouldnt have been a problem). I bought a new belt and went to change it and the current belt is there and looks almost new....
Heres some symptoms;
-Stater motor spins but doesnt sound as if it is engaging. (but it must be because of the following)
-If you try starting in gear the car moves forwards or back depending what gear you are in.
-The belt doesnt move as you spin the stater motor.
-Trying to bump start the car it doesnt feel to be under much compression and shows no signs of wanting to start.
I'm just confused because surely a broken crankshaft would be very noisy when you turn the key?
Any idea?!
Its a 1.1 Fire engine as in the Seicento Sportings. Its fuel injection and going by the sticker on the cambelt it was changed in 2008 approx 18k miles ago.
Thanks Jack
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Sept 27, 2012 12:04:20 GMT
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Common fault with fiats? This is the second one ive heard of......other was a ducato and the woodruff holding front pulley true on the crank had sheared......
big socket on the crank nut, in gear does the car try moving
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"No............I think I'll stick with the Maxi"
Arther Daley
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mt2man
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,364
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Sept 27, 2012 12:13:54 GMT
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I personally havent heard of this happening before, i would of thought the cambelt would snap before a crank breaking.
I shall give that a try! The other thought it maybe the flyhweel bolts have sheared but i was thinking that surely it has to be connected to the crank in order to turn the gearbox for it to move in gear? i suppose it is possible the lower crank pully is just spinning on the end of the crank so the belt isnt moving as you say the woodruff might have sheared
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Sept 27, 2012 12:17:29 GMT
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Happened to me on an astramax years ago as well, and wierdly it was the cam pully, bolt came loose and the pulley was just a tollerence fit
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"No............I think I'll stick with the Maxi"
Arther Daley
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Sept 27, 2012 12:21:38 GMT
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If the flywheel bolts sheared the first motion shaft and release bearing would hold the wheel to the crank, but would probably sound horrible on the starter.......same way of checking though, socket on crank pulley nut, the engine will either turn over, or just the crank will turn
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"No............I think I'll stick with the Maxi"
Arther Daley
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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Sept 27, 2012 12:22:42 GMT
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have you actually checked the belt? some will strip the teeth at the crank and even though the crank is turning nothing else will or as already said the woodruff key has snapped ?
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R.I.P photobucket
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mt2man
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,364
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Sept 27, 2012 12:48:57 GMT
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Turned the crank shaft pully, turns and has good compression, no terrible noises, i know you should only go one way but i did try it the other direction and again it turned and good compression then decided it wouldnt turn anymore, turned it the other way and it carried on round and round with good compression, so only locks up in one direction. With the wheels off the air the wheels turned round slightly with the car in gear but not as much as it should normally.
The flywheel and what looks like the clutch assembly can be seen through the inspection hole and once you finish cranking on the starter by the time you walk from the side of the car to the insepction hole the flywheel is still spinning freely as if its under no resistance at all.
So it seems as if the flywheel isnt actually connected to the crank at all, but if its not then how are the wheels able to turn when the car is in gear and it turns on the stater?
I'm getting confused haha
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mt2man
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,364
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Sept 27, 2012 12:49:25 GMT
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Oh the belt did turn when i turned the crankshaft pully so the belt is fine all teeth are present
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Sept 27, 2012 13:37:10 GMT
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Wheels will turn with the stater because the flywheel is connected to the first motion shaft of the gearbox via the clutch
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"No............I think I'll stick with the Maxi"
Arther Daley
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Sept 27, 2012 13:42:13 GMT
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So basicly someone put the car into first, reved it past the redline, dropped the clutch ane sheared all 6/8/10 bolts, or was thrashing hell for leather, and came from like 80 mph to zero useing the gearbox instead of the brakes........either way car sounds like its been thrashed within an inch of its existance  |
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"No............I think I'll stick with the Maxi"
Arther Daley
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mt2man
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,364
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Sept 27, 2012 13:43:35 GMT
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So could it be the 6 bolts holding the flywheel to the crank have all sheared? I don't know how else it would explain the symptoms?
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mt2man
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,364
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Sept 27, 2012 13:45:54 GMT
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It was a woman owner before so that explains it haha
Do you think it would be possible to remove and replace the 6 bolts and refit the flywheel?
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Sept 27, 2012 13:47:44 GMT
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Yup thats what it sounds like to me.......might have been rebuilt at one time with the wrong bolts......maybe auto bolts and a manual flywheel........but not knowing the history of the car i cant say.......either way, whip the box off and have a deco......and we want pics
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"No............I think I'll stick with the Maxi"
Arther Daley
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Sept 27, 2012 13:49:23 GMT
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Yup just make sure they are manual bolts, as auto bolts are shorter
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"No............I think I'll stick with the Maxi"
Arther Daley
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mt2man
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,364
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Sept 27, 2012 13:56:39 GMT
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Okay I will give it a go at the weekend hopefully! I will make sure to take pics thanks for the help! |
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Sept 27, 2012 13:59:09 GMT
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No problemo.....make sure the timing is still right after turning the engine the wrong way as well.......non interference means nothing
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"No............I think I'll stick with the Maxi"
Arther Daley
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Sept 27, 2012 14:16:14 GMT
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tip: do NOT try pressing the clutch in its current state - there's every chance it's only keeping central, by the clutch plate being engaged to the input shaft of the gearbox. Press the clutch, and suddenly the flywheel can "drop", and that can utterly ruin your day....
smashed clutch cover, friction plate, release bearing,starter motor... to name but a few possibilities
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You're like a crazy backyard genius! |
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Sept 27, 2012 15:05:35 GMT
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I bet he's already pressed the clutch loads of times!
The flywheel will probably be spigoted onto the crank to align it centrally (They don't rely on the bolts for location), and the clutch release bearing will be pushing against it which is stopping the whole lot dropping off and making a bid for freedom.
Does it look as though it's had the gearbox off recently?
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mt2man
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,364
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Sept 27, 2012 15:07:07 GMT
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Yeah i will double check the timing belt is alligned properly and everything before i do try and run it properly.
I will bare that in mind with the clutch! A friend of mine has had a similar problem and turned out a couple of the bolts holding the flywheel were missing and only 2 were holding it on had sheered and he had the same symptoms. He managed to remove the 2 sheared bolts and replaced the bolts and his ran fine after so fingers crossed!
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Sept 27, 2012 19:00:41 GMT
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Year ago neighbour had similar problem after garage tried to tow start. Turned out to be crank had sheared at rear journal.
Paul H
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