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Sept 12, 2012 19:52:32 GMT
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Hello everyone time for to pick your collective brains once more, I have started dropping my engine in my Mk1 Capri. I'm using a rover v8 with Lt 77 gearbox. I'm going to cut the gear box tunnel the weekend and have removed the heads so i can measure up for the engine mounts. The engine is a 3.9 Rover with hot wire injection from a Range Rover classic. I know the radiator has to be mounted against the slam panel but the crank pulleys and water pump seem very close to the front of the engine bay. I do remember reading various bits and pieces about changing the water pump (P6 I think) and I think the serpentine set up might be the way to go but would like to know more about it before I jump in. If anybody has any experience of squeezing solihulls finest in a tight hole and can explain the simplest solution and how well this works it Will be a real big help.
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MK5 Transit MK1 capri
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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Sept 12, 2012 20:41:09 GMT
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R.I.P photobucket
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rodney
Posted a lot
https://www.facebook.com/RD-vehicle-transport-and-recovery-services-525622614268010/
Posts: 1,677
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Sept 12, 2012 20:46:39 GMT
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didnt street machine cover this years ago?,.
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facebook: rodney dean / rd transport
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squonk
Part of things
Posts: 858
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Sept 12, 2012 21:46:58 GMT
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I would seriously think twice about using the LT77 gearbox. It is a very weak unit, I used to trash them regularly when I had a 2.4 diesel SD1 and that had about half the power of a 3.9 V8. The gearchange is pretty dire as well. You'd be better off using one of the stronger Ford boxes with an adapter plate. You probably wouldn't need to modify the trans tunnel if you did either.
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2004 Chevrolet Avalanche Z71 2005 Mercedes CLK320 Cabriolet 1996 Mercedes C180 Elegance Auto Saloon 1996 Rover 620Ti (Dead fuel pump) 1992 Toyota HiLux Surf 1987 Range Rover Vogue (Rusty) 1992 Range Rover Vogue SE (More Rusty) 2006 Chrysler Grand Voyager 2008 Corsa 1.4 Design
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10mpg
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,253
Club RR Member Number: 204
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3.9 rover Capri10mpg
@10mpg
Club Retro Rides Member 204
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Sept 15, 2012 12:50:38 GMT
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Then again i gave my tuned SD1 rover V8 hell for years and the bix was sweet, likewise the one in my Range Rover classic..
I don't think they're as bad as people make out, I broke one in a defender but that was running a 3.5 litre DI Nissan Truck engine...
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The Internet, like all tools, if used improperly, can make a complete bo**cks of even the simplest jobs...
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Sept 15, 2012 14:44:21 GMT
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Cheers for the help, I'm using the lt 77 because I've got one and intend to swap it for an LDV when that one gives up the ghost. LDV LT77s are bullet proof if the Internets to be believed. At the moment water pumps and crank pulleys are the problem, I've got to figure out what I'm going to use, probably P6 but I'm worried about will the p6 water pump just swap for the Range Rover 3.9, do I need to swap the timing cover? Will a p6 crank pulley fit my crank and will there be issues with crank balance.
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MK5 Transit MK1 capri
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jikovron
Part of things
mechanical chaos
Posts: 633
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Sept 15, 2012 15:03:06 GMT
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ive been on this journey of dispair recently with a 3.9 you could either use a serpentine timing cover complete with the crank pulleys and alternator as fitted to 94 onwards 3.9s which are only a tad longer in profile than a p6 timing cover/pulley setup but the water pumps are £50 less to replace than p5/p6 items
3.9's are externaly balanced hence the bob weight ring will need cobbling onto whatever crank pulley you use in its origional position relative to the crank
if you used an r380 from a 93 onwards ldv 200 (lt77's' in pre 93 200s) they are supposedly rated to 280ft/lb however i supect ones that have broken are due to the input shaft bearings wearing out and causing the gears to come out of mesh enough to break teeth the van ones also use a daft low first ratio with in my car means pulling away in second as a first gear
imo a 3.5 engine would probably cause alot less headache than a 3.9 as they all seem to end up cracking the block around the liners like mine did after reving it to 5500 for the first time after running in and bizzarely i found make less low midrange grunt when ran on the same ancilleries and camshaft etc but the same peak torque
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squonk
Part of things
Posts: 858
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Sept 15, 2012 18:00:11 GMT
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The '380' in R380 refers to its torque rating in Nm. 380Nm = 280.273ft/lb so that's probably where the figure you have comes from. Consequently any R380 is technically rated at that torque figure.
The best compromise Rover V8 would be an early RPi 3.9. RPi were producing the 3.9 long before Land Rover. The difference is that they did it by stroking the engine whereas Land Rover did it by boring it out. Hence the RPi V8 doesn't have the sliiped liner/cracked block issues that the Land Rover one does. I have two Range Rovers, an RPi 3.9 engined 1987 model and a standard 3.9 1992 model. The RPi engned one is much smoother.
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2004 Chevrolet Avalanche Z71 2005 Mercedes CLK320 Cabriolet 1996 Mercedes C180 Elegance Auto Saloon 1996 Rover 620Ti (Dead fuel pump) 1992 Toyota HiLux Surf 1987 Range Rover Vogue (Rusty) 1992 Range Rover Vogue SE (More Rusty) 2006 Chrysler Grand Voyager 2008 Corsa 1.4 Design
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Sept 15, 2012 18:20:30 GMT
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Funnily enough I had a p5 rover v8 but was told by a bloke from Capri sport not to bother, this is why I put the project on hold. He told me to I'd be better off with a 3.9 and that's whats sitting in the unit so that's whats gotta go in I'm afraid. Later on I would love to build a full on engine but I think funds wont allow it at the moment. Anyway I need to remove the crank pulleys to get the engine sitting right to measure for the engine mounts, when I remove the pulleys do I need to mark anything or can I just un bolt them. When I do come to put the engine in the car what should I do about the bottom pulleys if they do foul the anti roll bar. Will a serpentine pump, pulley and timing cover fit my engine? If not what is involved in converting it to a P6 set up?
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MK5 Transit MK1 capri
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Sept 15, 2012 19:35:05 GMT
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Squonk where do you get the adaptor plate for the ford boxes from?
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jikovron
Part of things
mechanical chaos
Posts: 633
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Sept 15, 2012 20:33:52 GMT
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tbf to the 3.9 i imagine it may well give good service as long as its never seen long term lpg usage or got too hot in the past and seemingly they are much less prone than later 4.0 and 4.6 engines serpentine timing covers do fit in place of the rr timing cover but need a custom fabbed alternator bracket and shorter multi v belt unless power steering and air con ancilleries are retained the distributerless serpentine timing covers fitted to very late engines are probably best avoided as you would need the sump and pickup pipe,,and megajolt presumably the crank pulley is woodruff keyed to the crankshaft,,and the weighted balance ring is dowelled to the crank pulley so they can only in theory fit in one position after removal for a p6 front setup it will fit the 3.9 directly in place without issues and you would need to get a waterpump,crank pulley, alt bracket from a p5/p6auto/mgb and the timing cover can be from a sd1/mgbv8/p5/p6 (sd1's having a bigger oil pump) fingers crossed for a smooth install
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squonk
Part of things
Posts: 858
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Sept 15, 2012 20:42:38 GMT
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I seem to recall that JE Engineering and Wisbech Engineering do something.
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2004 Chevrolet Avalanche Z71 2005 Mercedes CLK320 Cabriolet 1996 Mercedes C180 Elegance Auto Saloon 1996 Rover 620Ti (Dead fuel pump) 1992 Toyota HiLux Surf 1987 Range Rover Vogue (Rusty) 1992 Range Rover Vogue SE (More Rusty) 2006 Chrysler Grand Voyager 2008 Corsa 1.4 Design
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Sept 16, 2012 7:32:27 GMT
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Cheers Jikovron, That's pretty much what I wanted to know. I'm surprised no one has told me to ditch the rover altogether and stick a 302 or Essex or cossie in it. I'm going to remove the bottom pulley as its fouling a support I bolted in to carry the 2.8i anti roll bar mounts this itself will have to be trimmed to miss what ever pulley I eventually use . I'll try and get some pics posted and try and get a build thread going as soon as I figure out how to post pictures.
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MK5 Transit MK1 capri
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Sept 16, 2012 7:41:59 GMT
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Oh yeah I am using pas but not air con, quite fancy the serp set up but have read it wont work with earlier engines? Will the pulley that comes with the serp set up balance my 3.9 ok? Cheers for the help as well people, nothing is ever east is it lol.
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MK5 Transit MK1 capri
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Sept 16, 2012 8:46:24 GMT
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Just read my last post and nothing is EASY including typing ha ha ha!
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MK5 Transit MK1 capri
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Sept 16, 2012 9:15:35 GMT
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Keep us updated on how this goes and post some pics I'm using pretty much the same set up in my RWD MK4 Escort, bought an LDV 200 gearbox a while ago, was worried that it would be unsuitable, but have also read on the net that the LDV LT77 box is hard to get rebuild parts for ? My engine is a 3.9 high comp serp from a 95 Disco, an "intermediate" motor so runs a dizzy, block and crank are off getting reconditioned at the moment, block has been pressure tested and is sound so that's a relief I've seen JE Engineering do (or once did ?) a neat bracket and tensioner for just running an alternator on a serp motor, i intend to use that kit if it's still available or if i can find one.
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72 Pontiac Firebird Formula 400. 95 BMW E34 525i Manual. 80 Lotus Elite, sold 86 Mk4 Escort RWD V8, sold
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Sept 16, 2012 18:20:04 GMT
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MK5 Transit MK1 capri
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Sept 16, 2012 18:28:18 GMT
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MK5 Transit MK1 capri
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Sept 16, 2012 19:11:01 GMT
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MK5 Transit MK1 capri
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Sept 16, 2012 22:00:03 GMT
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i 1st did this swap about 20 years ago (where does the time go ) i bought a pair of mounts, modified sump with extended pick up pipe from a company called iirc APS - auto power services you don't need to cut the tunnel out, just remove the strengthening thingy thats spot welded onto the tunnel from underneath, i used the standard sd1 g/box crossmember, made some spacers using a couple of 6" lenghts of 1" box i had kicking about to sandwich between body and crossmember to lower the box an inch, i also used a sherpa g/stick remote to move the stick closer to the original hole sounds like fun, keep us up-dated
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