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OK, I read the article in PC and it got me thinking..............
If they're banning the sale of Celly from next year,how about if I bought some soon-ish and kept it stored in un-opened tins until I'm ready to use it sometime next year.
Does cellulose deteriorate over time, or can I store it (in sealed tins) for, say, a year or so?
It's only the sale of cellulose that's banned. Once i've got it, I'll have finished the paint job by the time the neighbours have complained (and they will, believe me!).
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Last Edit: Oct 2, 2006 10:16:38 GMT by moggyman
1953 Minor (Long term project)
PT Cruiser
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Is celly getting banned?
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1972 Fiat 130 1985 Talbot Alpine 1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 + 1986 Mazda 929 Koop + Wagon 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 BEST CAR EVER!!!!!!!! 1979 Datsun B310 Sunny 4-dr 1984 Audi 200 Quattro Turbo 1983 Honda Accord 1.6 DX GONE1989 Alfa 75 2.0 TS Mr T says: TREAT YO MOTHER RIGHT! |
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^ Like wise IS Celulose getting banned !  **Yet something else to ban in UK ? ** |
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i hope not cos modern paint sux, its rubbish for patching paint, eg when sorting a rust patch. celly hides it alot better
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I havent read the artical, but I had heard that was one of the plans  Although there was talk about small quantities still being availabel for home use, but I don't know what happened about that  |
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It's been being banned for about a million years now - although it looks like it may actually get really difficult to buy this time. I'm hoping it won't effect me too much as 1. I don't paint many cars and 2. I have a workshop in a courtyard I share with 4 bodyshops of varying quality  |
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when larry and i did the course in april we were told it was being banned this/next year
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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Cellulose paintslater
@slater
Club Retro Rides Member 78
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Its not getting banned! its just being controlled. From what i gather they are going to bring in some sort of scheme which would probably make it harder to just go down the local paint store and buy it but they simply havent dicided exactly whats going to happen yet!
They talk of having 'licences' to buy it and it only being avalible to 'professionals' but i don't relly know how they would enforce it.
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Jesus is anyone paying attention?
I posted up a link about this yesterday to PC and their podcast and we've debatred the pros and cons of this on a number of occasions.
Basically as on 1/1/2007 it is illegal to buy cellulose and a bunch of other old school paints unless you have a licence to use it. The licence is based on the fact that your car is historic and UNMODIFIED. Each car you paint in celly will need a separate licence.
There is a get out that suppliers may sell on old stock which was made before 31/12/2006 until 31/12/2007.
After that it becomes illegal to sell any cellulose or acrylic paint regardless of when it was made. Unless you have a special licence.
All this relates to automotive paint.
I have been talking to a couple of suppliers because there is a get out that you can still paint boats and the like in celly because there are no controls for boat painters. However the places I spoke to so far say they don't plan to sell celly or acrylic after 31/12/2007 for any kind of use and expect that they will be sold out of non-compliant stock well before that anyway.
There are a couple of specialists (isted in the issue of PC) who will be continuing cellulose production in limmited volume for those users who can provide a licence.
The article specifically states that some one "putting a modern engine into a 70s Ford with flared arches" would definitely not get a licence.
So thats us then basically...
To answer the original question celly paint stores nicely for years. The problem is that when you come to use it you may not be able to get compatible thinners, panel wipe and all that.
However where theres a will theres a way. A mate of mine works in the paint industy and says there is already a problem with "grey market" paint being shipped in from abroad (outside the EU) so this may be a source for non-compliant paints.
Or you'll have to learn to love waterbased paints. They appear to be DIY-able with a little thought and preparation.
Thing is I like celly and acrylic. They work well and they give a proper old school finish. I hate 2K and people tell me WB is very similar to 2K (but less durable).
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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I'm still not entirely sure I trust water based paint long term after seeing the difference in condition between your average J reg Mk2 Golf and J reg Mk3. Mk3s are far more prone to rot in strange and unusual places IMHO  |
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Okay with all this but what about touch up tins of spray sold in places like Halfords?
As a side note I was informed by local Ironmonger in home town that HUMBROL paints (oil based) have gone bust (as same firm also owned Airfix Model firm).
'Tis all very well banning this paint and so on but what about when you say knock a panel and need to blow some paint (primer usually) over the gash to stop rust ?
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AFAIK no change in the law on aerosols. Or they may become direct gloss waterbased ones in future. TYou'll need to dry any repairs with a hairdryer.
TwincamGTI - they don't WANT us doing our own repairs, thats a whole big part of this.
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Last Edit: Oct 3, 2006 7:49:37 GMT by akku
1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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LowStandards
Club Retro Rides Member
Bigging Up The Sum Sum Man Since '99
Posts: 2,647 
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Waterbased paint sprays lovely, the only problem is drying it as you need air movement not infared like most small bodyshops use. And the problem with air movement in places without proper down-draught booths is your gonna get dust and all matter of wibblepoo in the finish!
I'm sure 2k is gunna be outlawed, or already is??? Damn shame, cause you can put it on like pudding, leave it overnight and you've got a smooth surface to wake up to!
Last one, towards twincam, never just stick primer over bare metal (say a paint gash), the whole point of primer is it 'sucks' paint in so you get a good bond, but it also loves moisture!
I'm done now, i'm probably all wrong, but hey...
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Oh  ...so it's all part of a grand conspriacy! Of course you are correct, it's was just an example. In fact any 'Matt' paint soaks water hence with Military vehicles /NATO Green I 'go over' the paint with an rag soaked in oil and diesel to give a nice satin effect which also stops moisture absorbtion. |
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LowStandards
Club Retro Rides Member
Bigging Up The Sum Sum Man Since '99
Posts: 2,647
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I'm guessing we'll still be able to get hold of celly, we all know someone who knows someone who knows someone who works in a bodyshop, who'll be licensed and be able to get it for ya!
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That's the plan |
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I'm guessing we'll still be able to get hold of celly, we all know someone who knows someone who knows someone who works in a bodyshop, who'll be licensed and be able to get it for ya! Its not the user who is licenced its the car. You will have to have your car approved as being classic enough to warrent a historic vehicle excemption. And AFAIK professional bodyshops will not be able to get licences only DIY users because bodyshops have to meet VOC regulations. And yes, it seems 2K is also being banned. No loss, I bloody hate the stuff. toxic plastic paint. |
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Last Edit: Oct 3, 2006 9:51:52 GMT by akku
1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Basically as on 1/1/2007 it is illegal to buy cellulose and a bunch of other old school paints unless you have a licence to use it. The licence is based on the fact that your car is historic and UNMODIFIED. Each car you paint in celly will need a separate licence. Is that for real? That sounds absolutley 100% impossible to control and monitor! Is someone going to come round after you have painted your car and inspect that it is indeed 'original'?? Or that you have actually used the paint on what you said you were going to use it on? The 'licence' is granted based on what you are painting rather than what facilities or qualifications you have for using the stuff? TBH that sounds utterly absurd. The whole thing sounds suitably woolly that I am pretty sure celly will still be available, you might end up sending off for it instead of buying it from the local motor factors though. |
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1972 Fiat 130 1985 Talbot Alpine 1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 + 1986 Mazda 929 Koop + Wagon 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 BEST CAR EVER!!!!!!!! 1979 Datsun B310 Sunny 4-dr 1984 Audi 200 Quattro Turbo 1983 Honda Accord 1.6 DX GONE1989 Alfa 75 2.0 TS Mr T says: TREAT YO MOTHER RIGHT! |
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LowStandards
Club Retro Rides Member
Bigging Up The Sum Sum Man Since '99
Posts: 2,647
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My mate works in a bodyshop and we was on about it the other day and he said the 'shop would have to get a license to carry on using celly??? I aint got a clue.
As for 2k, again your allowed to buy it if you can prove its for agricultural use for example. But again, how they gonna know?
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The licence thing will work that you will have to have your project inspected (covered in the cost of getting the licence).
The idea is that only "proper classics" will be allowed to be painted in celly where using a non-authentic paint finish would detract from their value or historic significance. Its for Lord Montageu and the like repainting 1930s Rolls Royces and XK120s. Its not for Billy Modder or Joe Average at home with a Mini or TR7.
Basically they wanted to stop all celly painting of cars but some members of the house of lords have collections of vintage Bentleys. You dig...
The FBHVC has fought for this excemption, but the FBHVC hates modified classics, hot rods and the like as its run by flat cappers. They are afine organisation and I support them 100% because they do lots of good but they take the opinion that if we are happy to use modern engines in our old cars we should be happy to use modern paints...
I'm still exploring the boat painting avenue.
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Although there was talk about small quantities still being availabel for home use, but I don't know what happened about that 
...so it's all part of a grand conspriacy!