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Jan 26, 2011 11:32:17 GMT
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when you sold it did you do a receipt "sold as seen and tested" both signed?? I did, and we've both got a copy. it's not mis-described. Dan described it as what he knew it to be. The only slight problem is that I did specifically use the phrase 'this is a genuine 328i Sport, and it says so on the V5', which wasn't true (although I did think that it was...!). I've spoken to Trading Standards, they say that the Sale of Goods Act does apply to second hand cars to a lesser extent (i.e. it fully applies in terms of description), but that a private seller's advert wording really counts as opinion rather than fact and can be argued as such. I just hope the guy doesn't follow it through and take me to court - really don't need the hassle. Particularly if the judge sides with him for some reason and makes me give the money back!
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Jan 26, 2011 11:51:24 GMT
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Why didn't I think of asking BMW before?! *facepalm*Just rang them and they said that it's a 328i Sport on their system. Can't really get a better endorsement than that. Thanks very much for your helpful info and support, everyone - I was freaking out a bit but feel much better now! Have a retro Beemer for your trouble...
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Jan 26, 2011 11:51:32 GMT
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when you sold it did you do a receipt "sold as seen and tested" both signed?? I did, and we've both got a copy. it's not mis-described. Dan described it as what he knew it to be. The only slight problem is that I did specifically use the phrase 'this is a genuine 328i Sport, and it says so on the V5', which wasn't true (although I did think that it was...!). I've spoken to Trading Standards, they say that the Sale of Goods Act does apply to second hand cars to a lesser extent (i.e. it fully applies in terms of description), but that a private seller's advert wording really counts as opinion rather than fact and can be argued as such. I just hope the guy doesn't follow it through and take me to court - really don't need the hassle. Particularly if the judge sides with him for some reason and makes me give the money back! Why not do as joelm83's post and run the VIN through the decoder? Will give a definitive answer either way.
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Jan 26, 2011 11:52:32 GMT
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If he does take it all the way just make sure you have the 'proof' i.e advert from the fella you bought it off, any receipts etc and anything that would lead you to believe it is a genuine example, so if you can details from the chassis or reg. no. and ask a friendly BMW dealer to confirm it's a Sport you're laughing.
What's absolutely crucial is that if he does take you to the S.M.C you must turn up or they're very likely to find against you automatically. Looking at what T.S have said though I can't see there being too much problem for you, though don't sit back and assume all is well 'just in case'.
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Corsa Apology Champion 2014.
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Jan 26, 2011 11:53:15 GMT
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Why not do as joelm83's post and run the VIN through the decoder? Will give a definitive answer either way. Cheers - I don't have the VIN as I sold the car a fortnight ago, but thankfully BMW were able to confirm it over the phone from the registration number. I can't see there being too much problem for you, though don't sit back and assume all is well 'just in case'. Sage advice, thank you.
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Last Edit: Jan 26, 2011 11:54:30 GMT by dbizzle
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Jan 26, 2011 11:55:56 GMT
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As others have stated, it's unlikely trading standards will want to know about it. So if he's going to get anything back he's going to have to go to court. To get anywhere in court he will have to prove the following:
First of all he'll have to prove that you have misdescribed the car and it isn't a genuine Sport. If upon further investigation it proves to be a Sport then ask for some of whatever he's smoking.
Secondly, if he is basing his case upon your misdescription of the V5 then he'll have to explain to the court why, when he came to collect the car and fill in his details on the V5, he didn't notice that it didn't say Sport on it. If both of you overlooked what the V5 said, the
Ok, suppose he successfully argues that you did misdescribe the car. To get any money from you he's going to have to show that he suffered actual damages - ie some sort of financial loss - as a result of misdescription. In a case like this, it means he'll have to prove one of three things, but only after he proves that it isn't a genuine Sport and that you did materially misdescribe the car.
1. He wouldn't have bought the car but for your misdescription.
2. He paid more than the car was worth based on your misdescription.
The first one could result in substantial damages (ie the price of the car) but he would need to seek an order from the court requiring you to take back the car and refund him the money. Unless there is a specific remedy in some consumer protection legislation, then he is asking the court for an order of "specific performance" - ie an order by the court forcing you to physically do something other than just pay him money for the damages he has suffered. Courts are reluctant to order specific performance.
The second argument - that he overpaid for the car therefore is the more likely argument. The damages will be the difference between the amount he paid, and what a Sport clone/replica normally sells for. He'll obviously look for the lowest price examples of replicas on the market and you'll look for the opposite. I know nothing about BMW market the age and condition of your car, nor what you sold it for so I can't offer you any guidance on this but I'm guessing it isn't a huge sum of money.
Anyways, find out the actual status of the car (Sport or non-Sport) and if it proves to be the latter then make him work for his money.
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1995 Range Rover 4.0 1995 BMW 320i Saloon 1989 BMW 325i Touring 1991 Mercedes 300TE-24 1991 Mercedes 190e 1970 Sunbeam Imp Sport
1966 Valiant 200 Custom 1964 Ford Fairlane 500 Station Wagon
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Jan 26, 2011 11:57:07 GMT
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Just saw your post about BMW confirming it's status as a Sport. Tell him go suck and egg.
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Last Edit: Jan 26, 2011 11:57:31 GMT by mrabody
1995 Range Rover 4.0 1995 BMW 320i Saloon 1989 BMW 325i Touring 1991 Mercedes 300TE-24 1991 Mercedes 190e 1970 Sunbeam Imp Sport
1966 Valiant 200 Custom 1964 Ford Fairlane 500 Station Wagon
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Jan 26, 2011 12:05:00 GMT
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This is what immediately struck me:
He had in his hand, filled in and signed the logbook for the car when he bought it! Any buyer with half a brain reads the logbook and goes over it to make sure all the car's details and the keeper's name and address details are correct, and that it's not a forgery before signing!
Glad to see that this has had a good (touch wood) outcome
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Last Edit: Jan 26, 2011 12:05:56 GMT by whitbytom
1967 Morris Traveller 1971 Series IIA Land Rover 1991 Golf GL 4+e 1992 Corrado G60 1986 E28 BMW 528i
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Jan 26, 2011 12:18:17 GMT
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V5 means nothing anyway, the description on it is written by the dealer who sells the car new, if he don't write "Sport" on it it wont appear as such on the DVLA computers, case in point are our two cars, it came up in discussion on both the Vitara and Frontera forums that some of our cars are down as estate cars, some as hatchbacks and some as convertibles, despite all of them being the 3 door soft top versions with a side opening back door.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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Garry
East Midlands
Posts: 1,722
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Jan 26, 2011 13:01:32 GMT
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don't worry mate I had a 328i sport, they don't say sport on the v5, they were dealer built mostly, standard 328i delivered then the dealer would fit the sport pack! the blokes being a nob end! tell him to do 1 Game over. Just point him towards BMW with his new purchase and check it for himself. Glad its resolved now. ;D
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v8ian
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,824
Member is Online
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Jan 26, 2011 13:36:52 GMT
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Under the trade descriptions act, If you advertise something as a specific item or condition, it MUST be that item, or in that condition or better, if not it has been Mis represented, and the buyer has FULL rights to make claim against you, it is that simple!!!!!
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Atmo V8 Power . No slicks , No gas + No bits missing . Doing it in style. Austin A35van, very different------- but still doing it in style, going to be a funmoble
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Jan 26, 2011 14:01:25 GMT
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Although it looks like this is sorted out, I would like to add, DO NOT offer any kind of even a partial refund. This implies you accept you are at fault. If the buyer goes any further with this, his only (shaky) proof you were dishonest about the car is that you said 'Sport' was on the V5, which it isn't. That's the only thing you said that wasn't true. The car IS a sport, it's just not registered as such on the V5, so it would be an easy matter to prove (via a BMW dealership) and get the DVLA to correct the V5.
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Jan 26, 2011 14:05:31 GMT
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And FWIW - for future reference - a "sold as seen and tested" recipet means nothing in law. All maner of laws require cars sold to be roadworthy etc. and correctly represented etc.
In this case, its simples, the car is what the cars is and what it claims to be. Case closed.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Jan 26, 2011 14:59:55 GMT
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V5 means nothing anyway, the description on it is written by the dealer who sells the car new, if he don't write "Sport" on it it wont appear as such on the DVLA computers, case in point are our two cars, it came up in discussion on both the Vitara and Frontera forums that some of our cars are down as estate cars, some as hatchbacks and some as convertibles, despite all of them being the 3 door soft top versions with a side opening back door. My old imported g40 polo came up as a 1.3 coupe. It was... It just had a supercharger bolted to the front of it ;D That was all down to the old dutch guy that imported it. He brought it with him and to him. It was just the misses lil 1300 polo runaround , Nothing compared to his big compressor merc
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fogey
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,613
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Jan 26, 2011 15:53:02 GMT
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Tell him you thought he was Australian and what you actually said was 'It's a BMW 328i,...Sport'
Seriously, I don't think you need worry.
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Jan 26, 2011 16:01:43 GMT
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And FWIW - for future reference - a "sold as seen and tested" recipet means nothing in law. All maner of laws require cars sold to be roadworthy etc. and correctly represented etc. In this case, its simples, the car is what the cars is and what it claims to be. Case closed. Indeed. I tend to write along the lines of 'sold as described in advert (and enclose a copy) after test drive and inspection'. Might not work but always worth a try I think.
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Corsa Apology Champion 2014.
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Jan 26, 2011 16:06:31 GMT
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I did, and we've both got a copy. The only slight problem is that I did specifically use the phrase 'this is a genuine 328i Sport, and it says so on the V5', which wasn't true (although I did think that it was...!). I've spoken to Trading Standards, they say that the Sale of Goods Act does apply to second hand cars to a lesser extent (i.e. it fully applies in terms of description), but that a private seller's advert wording really counts as opinion rather than fact and can be argued as such. I just hope the guy doesn't follow it through and take me to court - really don't need the hassle. Particularly if the judge sides with him for some reason and makes me give the money back! Why not do as joelm83's post and run the VIN through the decoder? Will give a definitive answer either way. ...Because it isn't accurate!
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Jan 26, 2011 19:07:12 GMT
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Solved... and locked, so it doesn't bump and replace the cool car post that will be coming up any second now.
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