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(continued due to STUPID I PHONE!!!).deliberately put in awkward places so you can't easily access it if you try to steal said car.I can't see how an Mot tester A)will have time to do this B)will have knowledge to locate every ecu location of all cars their testing C)actually care??
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i read through all the links and from what i can see is yes they are trying to make it more awkward for the hobbyist to build a car that can be used on the road but all of this will take time to implement they still don't have the emissions machines hooked to the computerized mot system yet and the isn't hooked up by a broadband setup yet either . once all that comes into play then it will become very hard to build a car that isn't in some way illegal to which the best solution as far as can see will be to keep building the cool cars safely and without all the obvious bodges that go on but when you eventually get stopped for using them hand dvla their plates back put the car on a trailer and carry on using them. plus side that is the government no longer earn as much from our hobby down side will be not being able to drive to and from a show race meet ect in the cars we built . remember if a car is built right and looks tidy it will get a lot less attention from the wrong sort of people if the wheels stick out to far or rub on the bodywork or the car has visible patches and other junk stuck to it that has real reason to be there other than to be outrageous its going to get unwanted attention and when that sort of car get that sort of attention so does the whole modified car scene
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MOT testers will care if their licence from VOSA depends on it. Same as they care about rusted sills bald tyres or whatever now.
I presume they will access the ECU through the service port same as anyone reading fault codes or whatever would do.
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Last Edit: Nov 21, 2010 9:29:21 GMT by akku
1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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As this part is a done deal it depends on how that is going to be interpreted It is worrying, but as you said yourself in the other thread, exactly how worrying it all is depends on how VOSA interpret and apply these regs. I'm more concerned about the "illegal ECU" bit. I don't understand what would constitute and illegally modified ECU - is it only aftermarket chips? Or will my car, which had no ECU from factory but will have one along with the engine swap, be deemed illegal? What does this mean for aftermarket ECU's like MegaSquirt or Emerald? Plus, how will an MOT station be geared up to tell an illegally modified ECU? OBD2 and later might be alright as they have some sort of standard, but will testers be required to be able to read every ECU manufactured ever? Or is it only for post-2001 cars with the tax bands linked to emissions? I'm not firing all these questions at you - as you said in the other thread, nobody knows how they are going to be applied. But it could either be a storm in a teacup or a major sh*tstorm depending on which way VOSA goes with it. I suppose all we can do is wait. This is where everyone on here can do their bit, speak to tuning parts suppliers and ask them if they are involved to ensure 1) we can continue and 2) that they are not about to be forced out of business.
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I don't see how tester can do anything about ECU's. They are not allowed to dismantle or remove anything anyway, so no way will they be prising apart dashboards and opening ECU's to check for modifications. As for testing through the OBD2 port, as I am currently finding out, this is a bit of a farce in some cases. Despite my new daily having an OBD2 port and made post 2001, it still does not run OBD2 compliant software, it can only be read by a dealers system.
Besides, I would wager on some modder who is clever with electronics coming up with a magic box that plugs in somewhere, meaning when a tester plugs a machine in, he gets fed with bog-standard factory data, despite what is really going on in the ecu.
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1986 Panda 4x4. 1990 Metro Sport. 1999 Ford Escort estate.
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I read through all the links and from what I can see is yes they are trying to make it more awkward for the hobbyist to build a car that can be used on the road but all of this will take time to implement they still don't have the emissions machines hooked to the computerized mot system yet and the isn't hooked up by a broadband setup yet either . once all that comes into play then it will become very hard to build a car that isn't in some way illegal to which the best solution as far as can see will be to keep building the cool cars safely and without all the obvious bodges that go on but when you eventually get stopped for using them hand dvla their plates back put the car on a trailer and carry on using them. plus side that is the government no longer earn as much from our hobby down side will be not being able to drive to and from a show race meet ect in the cars we built . remember if a car is built right and looks tidy it will get a lot less attention from the wrong sort of people if the wheels stick out to far or rub on the bodywork or the car has visible patches and other junk stuck to it that has real reason to be there other than to be outrageous its going to get unwanted attention and when that sort of car get that sort of attention so does the whole modified car scene We will still be able to continue via the BIVA route but you are correct ,the less reason 'they' get to focus the better. This has always been part of ACEs fear, that banning will come in slowly by whittling away at what can be done rather than an outright ban which would have millions up in arms. There is no doubt that everywhere else in the EU use of Historic cars is regulated as they are so 'dirty' and we have a huge green lobby against us so preventing modification of engines would be a target. However the bulk of the opposition comes from OEM as they want to be the ones selling hi performance versions of their vehicles
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I don't see how tester can do anything about ECU's. They are not allowed to dismantle or remove anything anyway, so no way will they be prising apart dashboards and opening ECU's to check for modifications. As for testing through the OBD2 port, as I am currently finding out, this is a bit of a farce in some cases. Despite my new daily having an OBD2 port and made post 2001, it still does not run OBD2 compliant software, it can only be read by a dealers system. Besides, I would wager on some modder who is clever with electronics coming up with a magic box that plugs in somewhere, meaning when a tester plugs a machine in, he gets fed with bog-standard factory data, despite what is really going on in the ecu. As I've said elsewhere we do not have an illegal mods definition ( other than emmissions MOT specs ) in this country CURRENTLY so that part of the new test is moot .However the fear is that this has given a tool to be able to introduce a definition of illegal which is the more worrying concern.
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93fxdl
Posted a lot
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Posts: 2,013
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Nov 21, 2010 11:14:24 GMT
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i have heard that it may be that a prius could fail the mot if it has the wrong tyres fitted, as part of its green rating is low resistance tyres. also i heard that subaru were going to fit history devices in their cars, so they would know if the factory settings had been exceeded, but this was for warranty work so they didnt pay for blown engines that had been fiddled with ttfn glenn
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Nov 21, 2010 11:36:10 GMT
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I thought that the emissions part of the MOT was related to the age of the engine and/or vehicle (whichever the older) is this still the case? Also, this could have implications for engine transplants. If the powers that be decide that fitting a larger engine causes more damage to the environment, then this puts a question mark over lots of cars.
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1953 Minor (Long term project) PT Cruiser
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Nov 21, 2010 12:34:34 GMT
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the 5.7 ltr ford v8 in my van is far more efficient than the 1.6 crossflow the car had when it left the factory. in fact the v8 even runs dual cats so the emissions should be well under the current regs. its all about keeping to mods you do one step ahead
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Last Edit: Nov 21, 2010 12:35:13 GMT by Deleted
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Nov 21, 2010 13:01:58 GMT
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looks like there is a requirement for demisters and defrosters too, so I'm guessing that means you need a heater (for people that have removed them to have a smooth engine bay) I think you've always had to have a demister?
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Nov 21, 2010 13:19:52 GMT
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This has always been part of ACEs fear, that banning will come in slowly by whittling away at what can be done rather than an outright ban which would have millions up in arms. There is no doubt that everywhere else in the EU use of Historic cars is regulated as they are so 'dirty' and we have a huge green lobby against us so preventing modification of engines would be a target. It's the 'boiling frogs' analogy - if you put a frog in boiling water, it'll jump out. If you put a frog in cold water and heat it, it won't realise about the heat until it's too late to jump out. The EU, along with VOSA and DVLA, are master frog-boilers all. P.s. No frogs were harmed in the making of this post.
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Nov 21, 2010 13:25:18 GMT
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EXACTLY ! lol Thta's another reason why ACE has worked with BIVA to make it as usuable as possible. Don't put all your eggs in one basket
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Nov 21, 2010 13:29:52 GMT
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I have heard that it may be that a prius could fail the mot if it has the wrong tyres fitted, as part of its green rating is low resistance tyres. also I heard that subaru were going to fit history devices in their cars, so they would know if the factory settings had been exceeded, but this was for warranty work so they didnt pay for blown engines that had been fiddled with ttfn glenn .All that is being discussed right now at EU level, again already regs coming into place about fuel efficiency of new tyres ( reported on by ACE about 18 months back ) . Currently we see this aimed at 2001 on cars due to the way they are taxed ( part of the EC motoring framework shows moves to an entirely emmission based system ) but also modern safety OEM add-ons will also prevent modifying rather than outlawing it. Again we have reported on this situation over at ACE . It's about monitoring and looking at a worst case scenario. We don't want to scaremonger and we do tie stuff together but readers must be able to follow the dots, even the invisble ones.
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Last Edit: Nov 21, 2010 13:30:44 GMT by kapri
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