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Nov 13, 2010 21:34:15 GMT
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I've been asked to investigate left field retro's for a mate of mine, and in the process started to look at Saabs late 80's/90's offerings, specifically the big 9000 turbos. I don't know a lot about Saabs, except I've always liked them, but never owned on, and it's got me thinking that perhaps I should. I understand the 9000 is the same chassis as the Lancia Thema and Alfa 146, which are both cool cars in my opinion, but the Saab has always passed me by as something that other people are into. I gather they're a "bit" tunable, and that Abbot and Maptun do some very impressive numbers with the engines, but that's as far as my knowledge goes. The fact they cost me about half what I was paying on my LHD 80 Quattro Avant to insure, and will be far more comfortable, far better at mile munching, and cheaper to run, appeals to me... LOTS. And the potential impending sale of my VW engine also means it's a very real prospect.. but I'm not about to go into this blind. For your troubles. They're fairly good looking cars aren't they?
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The lurker formerly known as Cappuccinocruiser.. or wedgedout..
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Nov 13, 2010 21:42:12 GMT
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I've had two.
Nicely screwed together.
Comfy.
Handle like a greased cow shagging on a grand piano. But then don't all big front drivers?
Turbos can be wound out to make notable gains (at the expense of more lag) and I was continually warned when I enquired that I would kill my transmission (that one was an auto) if I did.
So I didn't.
I never got on with the whole foot down, wait for rpm, boost, go thing. If you drive them properly they are a whole load faster than they feel if you are used to tooling in a V8 I guess.
I would probably have another one if the circumstances presented themselves where that was a sensible option.
Oh, heavy on fuel.
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Last Edit: Nov 13, 2010 21:44:13 GMT by akku
1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Nov 13, 2010 21:48:59 GMT
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Won't be more heavy than fuel on than the Audi, 5 pots, + quattro, + Dave driving technique = fail.
Great sounding, bags of laughs fail, but a fail non the less.
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The lurker formerly known as Cappuccinocruiser.. or wedgedout..
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So, Saab 9000's?tourettesteddy
@GUEST
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Nov 13, 2010 21:50:55 GMT
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Very underated cars I've had 2 also a 1996 9000CSE lpt (light pressure turbo) around 170ish bhp a 1994 9000 Carlson (the hot one) 220ish bhp and better handling than a CSE 9000's can be turned into great handling cars with a change of Geometry (sp?) and better springs. Cheap to buy and all tunable a LPT can be taken to 200 bhp easily and cheaply. Never seem to be rusty either they feel well built and are smooth and comfy. Go for a 2.3 engine rather than the 2.0 either LPT or FPT as they can both be played with. Look for a company called Abbott racing on the net they are based in Wix in Essex they tuned both mine.
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Nov 13, 2010 21:58:53 GMT
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Few of the ones I've looked at have been Abbot modified, I'm guessing that like all turbo cars, they can be fairly good on fuel.. if you don't boost the backside out of em all the time.
I'm not looking for a B road terrorist I might add, I've got a few "tools" for that task, I'm after something to eat the miles up that won't cost me the earth to run, so if I fancy a change from a dull small engined daily, I can afford to run it work a few times a week perhaps, or use it to go and visit my family in Herts (I'm based in Lincs/Rutland)
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The lurker formerly known as Cappuccinocruiser.. or wedgedout..
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So, Saab 9000's?tourettesteddy
@GUEST
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Nov 13, 2010 22:11:23 GMT
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Low pressure turbo's are a good compromise the smaller turbo means hardly and lag and faster spooling. My CSE was an auto and felt quick would get to illegal speeds and keep going very easily. good for motorways and overtaking just kick down and gone. Plus being auto it wasn't always trying to spin the front wheels off while putting its power down. Mine had 260k on the clock and still pulled like a train ;D
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Dom
Part of things
Limey
Posts: 617
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Nov 13, 2010 22:39:47 GMT
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You forgot the Fiat Chroma I agree the Saab looks best though.
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10mpg
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,253
Club RR Member Number: 204
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So, Saab 9000's?10mpg
@10mpg
Club Retro Rides Member 204
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good cars later ones CSE CDE ect handle much better than phase one versions, but only the aero would be described as a tidy handler in my book, a CSE aero with uprated speings and dampers will run rings round most things the exploding autos are terrible in every way avoid like the plauge, personally i prefer the C900 turbo aeros, but the 9000's are a little but plusher at the expense of eccentricity
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The Internet, like all tools, if used improperly, can make a complete bo**cks of even the simplest jobs...
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Used to be the car thieves favourite but that's for good reason,strong quick and understated.
Always fancied a carlson and someone I know has a relatively boggo 9000 that's remapped to 300bhp and is very quick.
Saabs are well put together and do big mileages,good cars overall.
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60six
Posted a lot
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
Posts: 1,673
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I am a 900 fan, but one of these would be good too - I just can't afford to keep two different models going as I have no room for a spares car. Very easy to work on, great engines, the 9000 aero pushes out about 220bhp as standard, induction kit and exhaust gets you to 240! The 9000 was based on the Type Four chassis, a platform shared with the Fiat Croma, Lancia Thema and Alfa Romeo 164. The Croma and Thema are outwardly similar to the 9000 while the 164 shares only the chassis. (wikipedia)
Due to that, I don't consider it a 'proper saab' but then how many fiat chroma or alfa 164 do you still see? Ignition still in the wrong place though!
The squeaky interior annoys me too, only as it's so quiet in there, but none of my 900's make any interior noise at all, but then none of them are quiet inside.
Only go for the 2.3 full pressure turbo. Their naming conventions are very confusing, and recently I went to look at a 2.3 aero turbo only to realise it wasn't full pressure. It was the lack of boost gauge on the dash that was the only indication without driving it.
Manuals are rare, but the auto's are very responsive and a pleasure to drive.
Just get one. So many around the 500-700 quid mark - just make sure you take someone with you that knows them. They can keep going even with the most severe abuse/faults.
If someone says 'abbott tuned' all that means is they were ripped off royally for nothing more than an APC tweak, some stiffer shocks and maybe a manifold. Their expertise is immense, but so many people have paid through the nose for 'racing tuned' stuff that most people could fit in a weekend for a small percentage of what they charge.
Saying that though, for £750 they sell a chargecooler which turns a LPT into a total f**king monster ....
Abbott racing really know all there is to know, I am just a tightarse with a screwdriver, socket set and a spare weekend....
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Last Edit: Nov 14, 2010 3:36:33 GMT by 60six
Some 9000's, a 900, an RX8 & a beetle
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mull
Part of things
Posts: 296
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Nov 14, 2010 10:38:29 GMT
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If you get one I can recommend WMSS (West Midlands SAAB Specialists) by the Fort Dunlop Bimingham. Looked after my 95 til I had to sell it.
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froggy
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,099
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Nov 14, 2010 11:40:37 GMT
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ive had a few 9000,s and ths is my 2p no need to pay a premium for a 2.3 fpt or pay any of the "specialists" for tuning work when the knowledge and tools are freely available from saab forums here and in the us. i had a 94 aero and went down the usual route of hybrid turbo fancy suspension re map etc and ended up with 320hp at a cost of £2000 plus the cost of the car £600. my current car is a 2.0 lpt cse with one previous owner and 68k on the clock £300 holset hx35 turbo £250 630cc siemens injectors £140 3 bar map sensor £60 volvo t5 valve springs £70 2nd hand walbro 255 fuel pump £50 sachs uprated clutch cover £120 aero clutch plate £110 used 3" jt mild steel exhaust £100 can usb cable to connect to saab ecu for mapping £60 and free t5 suite mapping software plus a similar map from a car in the us running a garrett gt30 turbo total cost including the car £1200 suspension wise i run a doubled up rear anti roll bar and poly bushes in the front lower arm rear bushes with 1" lowered springs and its still a comfy ride with fairly flat cornering . most of the 2.3 cars will have been tweaked already but there are still some 2.0 lpt cars with are bone stock and ripe for tuning. most lpt cars have an intercooler fitted and the wiring in place for the apc valve so a 2nd hand apc and a re map from one of the regaulars on uk saabs will get a 2.0 lpt to over 200hp for a few quid . i met a lad at santa pod last month who did exactly that and ran a mid 14 1/4
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Nov 14, 2010 13:34:41 GMT
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personally, and bear in mind my preference for automatics here:
FWD + Turbo + Auto trans = megafail
Its the worst element of every driving experiance.
If you want an auto I'd go with a V6. If you want a turbo I'd go with the manual.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Nov 14, 2010 16:25:40 GMT
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ive never had a 9000 but ive got a 900 classic t16s and thats a real fun car ive just got back from the nec and was looking at 9000 on saab stand and i mite have get one these to now lol
but i think a 900 classic is best saab they ever did
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dclane
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,037
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Nov 14, 2010 17:12:59 GMT
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I've had two and would strongly recommend them. In fact, if I hadn't won £10k+ from ITV I'd still have mine.
The slightly modded 2.3CSE I had was enough for me - easily kept up with/was faster than much better machinery.
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Current vehicle collection: 2006 Saab 9-3 Aero convertible - in mid-life crisis yellow No new retro as yet ... all attempts to sneak one onto the drive have failed.
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Nov 14, 2010 17:41:38 GMT
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I run a 9000 aero,225bhp standard,3"downpipe and a £100 remap will give 300bhp,No matter how hard i push it never get less than 32 mpg if driven normally i get 38mpg.Handling isn't the best as standard,but it is heavy.Exhaust studs snap,rear calipers stick.Make sure the clutch is good as slaves fail and that's a gearbox out job.No real turbo lag on the 9k on a standard td04,unlike a c900 with a t3.Lots of info on uksaabs etc. Prices vary from £300-£2000 for a mint low milage one. I'd get a aero manual if just for the seats.
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60six
Posted a lot
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Posts: 1,673
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Nov 14, 2010 19:02:50 GMT
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If you want to sell it please let me know - That's one hell of a car.
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Last Edit: Nov 14, 2010 19:04:18 GMT by 60six
Some 9000's, a 900, an RX8 & a beetle
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froggy
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,099
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Nov 14, 2010 19:40:49 GMT
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13.2 at 118mph at pod last month . 90-120 in 4.2 seconds not too shabby for a big fwd car . currently fitting a bigger holset with variable vane and looking for 550hp and zero lag would be nice to run a mid 12 in a fully loaded fwd barge
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Nov 14, 2010 20:04:38 GMT
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Mmmm, I owned a 1993 9000 2.3 turbo Aero, with 2.0 manual gearbox and Bilstein B6... Nice sensible car, great performance only matched by very expensive machinery (lot of fun in highway), unabeatable combo of performance per galon, really confortable and roomy but handling disapointing even when unpushed (anyway has very predictable understeer). Easy to live with, if well manteined, looking after it is not expensive despite some spares cost an awfull lot (px engine mounts or brake pumps). In Trionic equiped engines, tuning is really afordable (take a look at saabs uk and ecuproject) Weak spots of this cars are: -Gearbox, prone to break -Trionic 5/ 5.5 APC valve, tends to get dirty and cut engine under aceleration (there are posts out there of how to swap this valve for a later model of a late and more developed engine, Trionic 7). -Electronics troublesome if messed. If I were you, I´ll go for a post 94 9000 Aero (always manual) as gearbox internals are improved for strenght (very weak for the torque developed). Service history is a must, becouse of engine sludge issue ( roadtestedsaabs.com/9395EngineSludge.aspx) that afects all post 1994 turbo engines (B204, B234). Make sure that oil changes were made unless every 6.000 miles (mobil 1 0w40 or another quality oil in that range; I used mobil 1 5w50 in warmer seasons). With 2.3 turbo (B234) engines performance is amazing, especially aceleration in top gears (torque is crazy), and fuel consumition is quite low (about 800km with one tank) but 2.0 t (B204) are better for peak power... PD_Handling is much better in the other sharers of type 4 plataform (Alfa 164 is ace!)
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