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It's days like these I wonder what the point in the MOT is.
Two different stations do diferent failure reports. No consistancy.
The first station failed it on welding to the sills. Except the the rot was in the wing base not the sills. Also it was failed on handbake inefficieny. The same test station passed my other E28 in July and the handbrake on that is significantly worse. So no consistancy in the same test station. It was also failed on a leak in a power steering hose. I and an independent mechanic coul not find this leak, although we did not check with the engine running. Because I knew the handbrake was good the power steering was sound and the welding required was not needed I pulled the car and have decided not to go back.
Today (two weeks after the last test in which it has been driven 50 miles) it has been tested at a different station. It was not failed on the sills or the handbrake. The power steering leak was given as an advisory. It was failed on excessive corrosion near the front suspension top mount on both sides. Imagine where the wing bolts to the inner wing. The rust is there along there affecting the inner wing lip that buts up againts the outer wing. The rust is along length of the wing and is confined there and does not contnue into the main structure of the inner wing. Now if this a genuine MOT failure it's not hidden and another example of inconsistancy amoung MOT testers. This was a job I was going to do when I aquired a pair of solid wings, a job for christmas hols. It also failed on the rear trailing arm bushes having play. The last MOT test did not pick this up. I bought new bushes as I was aware from my inspection that they where cracked and needed doing in the medium term so I don't mind it failing on those but I was hoping it would pass and then I could get on with fitting those one weekend soon.
It also failed on the windscreen wipers again not something it failed at the previous test.
Now I suppose the windscreen wipers could have got a bit worse and so could the rear trailing arm bushes between the two tests.
However the power steering has got better and the so have the sills. What apparantly has got alot worse is the corrosion on the inner wings.
So given test stations can't agree with themselves or each other then why get my car MOt'ed at all if is this subjective.
I hate MOT time. I read recently that there a moves a foot to require an MOT every two years rather than every year. I hope this happens so long as the test does not become more ridculous.
I am sure other people on here have had there own silly MOT tales.
I just had to moan. So now I will have to pay for welding work and the rear trailing arm bushes as I do not have time to do it.
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,784
Club RR Member Number: 34
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MOT woes.Dez
@dez
Club Retro Rides Member 34
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the inner wing will be a fail as its within a foot of a major suspension mounting- I.e. the strut top. if its got holes there it should have failed first time.
but I agree, mot mot stations are only trying to drum up work when they test a car. testing alone doesnt pay the bills anymore. its worth making it quite clear when you take a car in that they will not be receiving any work from you on anything it fails on.
I took one in today that I thought was sweet but it failed, on a sticky rear wheel cylinder, something I didnt know about as the car is so small and light you really cant tell one rear brake isnt really working! thats something that cant be argued though, the machine says it don't work, so thats it, no getting round that.
but, I have a good relationship with the garage I use for tests, all my, my families, most of my mates and a fair few of my customers cars go in there, so they're not going round looking for miniscule things to fail it on, as they know they wont get the work, and they know if they get really funny about minor things, they wont get the repeat business.
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Last Edit: Nov 1, 2010 21:03:14 GMT by Dez
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Yeah it does seem that different places see different things but that is probably down to them being mechanics. I used to use a place that ALWAYS flagged up brake lines, funny that it's always low parts cost and high labour time stuff that gets found.
I also used to hate MOT time but after finding a good MOT station ad learning more about the safety aspects of it I quite enjoy it as it helps find all the bits that need improving. Less like a dentist visit and more like quality control.
If your car is rusty it can't be a bad thing that it gets sorted, and if you have not got time to sort it it's not MOT man's fault.
Just think yourself lucky that we do have the MOT system that we do have, as you could live in one of the strict countries where most of the old and or modified cars we own would be classed as dangerous and legal.
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Dom
Part of things
Limey
Posts: 617
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I know what you mean. When I bought my AX it had a 2-month old MOT. Just a few advisaries. Turns out the brake servo or master cylinder were completely knackered. Garage said I could have lost braking at any time. So called the MOT place. "Oh that's not something we test." WTF!? You don't expect to have to fork out the whole cost of the car in bills just to make it safe when it already has an MOT! Don't trust MOTs as a mark of quality any more. The next car I buy I'm taking for a proper check-up first.
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I agree there's a lack of consistency between different garages, but as a lot of points are down to the tester's discretion there's no way of getting around it.
My nearest MOT place were pretty good, I always made sure I made clear I'll be fixing it myself, and had never had many issues. The thing that put me off was my E36's test this year. The car failed on emissions, and I asked the tester based on his experience and the gas analyser results what he thought the problem could be. His reaction was basically 'meh, not my problem, take it away and fix it'
They recommended a local place to me, so I took my E36 there and they 'diagnosed' a duff catalytic converter, and replaced it. I then returned for my free retest only to find the car failed again, but this time worse than the last.
In the end I used a reputable garage, who correctly diagnosed and replaced a damaged lambda sensor that the chap who fitted the cat broke by removing it with mole grips, and refitted the new cat which was leaking at both joints.
I then returned the car to the original MOT tester, who happily relieved me of another test fee, and passed the car.
Edit: I hate to be a moaner, but this is a source of anguish every year for me. Maybe one of the testers that use the forum could give some useful advice?
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Last Edit: Nov 1, 2010 22:02:31 GMT by whitbytom
1967 Morris Traveller 1971 Series IIA Land Rover 1991 Golf GL 4+e 1992 Corrado G60 1986 E28 BMW 528i
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rob0r
East of England
Posts: 2,743
Club RR Member Number: 104
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MOT woes.rob0r
@rob0r
Club Retro Rides Member 104
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Try Pilgrim's in Bures, they're fair with old BMWs as I should know!
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E30 320i 3.5 - E23 730 - E3 3.0si - E21 316 M42 - E32 750i ETC
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I don't mind failures so long as they are justified. The faults they picked up are faults I was aware of and had planned to fix in due course. I don't think the place in Glemsford has been unfair its just annoying.
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,926
Club RR Member Number: 174
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MOT woes.stealthstylz
@stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member 174
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Looking at some of the shitters driving about they should have the full test every year or so and then every 3 months you should have to pay a tenner for a garage to quickly look round the car and stamp that the original MOT is still valid. Too many people borrowing good tyres etc from mates to get through the MOT then putting bald ones on, and i've seen so many cars with rot that is impossible to occur in < 12 months.
Matt
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Gray
Part of things
Silence isnt golden!!!
Posts: 742
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MOT's every two years is the worst plan I have heard in a long time, its amazing how a car can deteriorate over 12 months never mind 2 years. the mot is a pain, granted, but its there for a reason, we get some horrific cars in that you wouldnt drive yourself never mind strap your kids into but the owners are completely unaware of the state of them. And to expand on a point Dez made earlier, Ive always said that it should be written into mot law that the testing garage shouldnt be allowed to carry any work out on the car, we see alot of welding that "garages" did the year before and its seriously sub-standard, granted we are welders and they are mechanics (read,not welders) but they are going to pass their own work no-matter what a state they make of it, and take money for doing it. We had one VW camper in that a garage had been putting together for years with screws, pop-rivets and seam sealer but charging for welding! of course they passed their own work every year but through chance the owners came to us to have some work done and they were blissfully unaware of the state of their pride and joy. I think mot's need to get stricter if anything
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The 2 year 'MOT' that was suggested was not what we are used to. There is review underway to produce an across EU stnadard MOT , due out in 2012 (to match all the otherEU regs that come in then ) . It is looking like it will cover many more items and the German TUV is being held up as the Gold Standard ,hence the 2 year idea but it is also a Compliance check as well as annual safety.
We currently have the oldest average age vehicles in the EU , 17 years as opposed to 12-13 average .
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Well I don't think the MOT needs to get stricter but the test needs to be consistant and applied correctly. My car if now having the work done to rectifiy the faults. I have no porblem in that especially as I discovered today I have more money than I thought in the bank account. That has never happen before.
I do agree MOT test stations should not be able to do the work they fail. That would solve alot of problems at a stroke but put alot of people out of buisness as most gargaes do more than just MOT's. All that is needed is honest mechanics/welders and competant ones at that.
In a sense if the the onwers of the cars you mention Gary, are unaware of the state of their car maybe they should get a bit more involved with it and learn a bit more instead of blindly trusting people they don't know to take care of their car. I began to get involved and learn about my car as stopped believing everything a garage told me and wanted to be able to verify myself what they said without having to rely on another garages opinion entirely.
One garage owner when trying to diagnose a running problem tired to convince me with his sethascope that I needed the bottom end bearing shells replacing. I didn't believe him in the end and 15,000 miles later the engine is just as strong as it ever was and the running issue has been cured by me.
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The MOT place in Glemsford has given me an MOT check list so at least next time round I can try to spot all the potential fails before it gets tested. So maybe I have finally found a decent test station.
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The 2 year 'MOT' that was suggested was not what we are used to. There is review underway to produce an across EU stnadard MOT , due out in 2012 (to match all the otherEU regs that come in then ) . It is looking like it will cover many more items and the German TUV is being held up as the Gold Standard ,hence the 2 year idea but it is also a Compliance check as well as annual safety. We currently have the oldest average age vehicles in the EU , 17 years as opposed to 12-13 average . Had a feeling there was gonna be a catch to this cos I read somewhere that MOT's in mainland Europe are more stringent than over here. I am assuming that the long standing principal of age related compliance over here will remain, or else we are all gonna be in trouble. I find that 17 year average age stat' surprising..... I am thinking that they are maybe including SORN classics..... a lot of which will probably never see the road again or are used very infrequently.
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'71 Arrocuda.... '71 Sunbeam Rapier Turbo (The Grim Rapier).... '63 Hymek D7076..... Audi GT5S
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mrj
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,662
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The 2 year 'MOT' that was suggested was not what we are used to. There is review underway to produce an across EU stnadard MOT , due out in 2012 (to match all the otherEU regs that come in then ) . It is looking like it will cover many more items and the German TUV is being held up as the Gold Standard ,hence the 2 year idea but it is also a Compliance check as well as annual safety. We currently have the oldest average age vehicles in the EU , 17 years as opposed to 12-13 average . and the real funny thing is, that the german TÜV/Dekra/GTü etc. all "find" a lot of faults on older cars, as they want to inspect every year (which might double their profit!). These faults are leaking engines for example, which still passes the test, but is an advisory. So their statistics then say that 90% of all +7 year old cars have "faults" , so they need to check them annually . One tester said to me that he can't pass an old car without an advisory, as he might get trouble if too much cars pass without a fault. What they also like to do, is let a car fail which is in the workshop on a fault that has been repaired before the test; e.g worn brake pads; when he inspects the car, those pads are already replaced (that was why the customer brought the car into the workshop!), the car fails on the pads, gets a free re-test 10 minutes later and passes . And their staistics are right then .... in germany it is different, though you can have your test in a workshop, there is still TÜV coming to that workshop and inspecting the cars. The workshop owner is not related to the TÜV and can not pass a vehicle, only the TÜV engineer can. Also TÜV and other testing organisations don't own workshops, so they are/should be independent....
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- 1971 VW 1600 TL Fastback - 1978 Passat GLS Variant - 1980 Audi 100 5E - 1981 VW aircooled panel van (sold) - 1983 VW Jetta Mk.I - 1984 VW Polo Coupé - 1984 VW Passat hatchback - 1987 VW Passat Variant - 1987 VW Passat hatchback - 1988 VW T25
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As an MOT tester I have seen my fair share of horrors/bodge jobs to get cars through the yearly test & some really poor welding repairs that were done for the test the year previous that were probably done by either Stevie Wonder or Ray Charles! Believe me when I say it ain't the best job in the world to do as all your mates expect to get an easy test done on their car because they know you & traders expect the same! Fortunatly I have a good reputation as a fair & honest MOT tester due to having been a tester for almost 21 years now & I get a lot of people coming to me for a MOT test having been recommended by someone whom i've tested their car.....i've even had people travel a long distance just for me to test their car because of this! I don't look for repair work whilst testing like some testers do,BUT if there's anything that doesn't meet the requirements for the test I fail it regardless whose car it is......i even failed my wife's car this year due to an emissions issue that I later rectified & issued a pass certificate! I'm more than happy to test anyone's car on the forum & you can rest assured that I will test it in a fair & honest manner & not be biased because its old unlike some testers I know that would be & there's people on here that will vouch for this like Mystery Machine,B8D,Ben90210,craig1010cc,eightsix....the list goes on! Now that's my perspective from the other side of the fence & i'm not defending other testers decisions good or bad Tim....
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Last Edit: Nov 2, 2010 20:08:06 GMT by Brat-Man
1974 Chevrolet C20 Camper Special Pickup Truck 2002 Fiat Multipla oil burner SOUTHWEST SWAPMEET southwests best car parts selling page on facebook for retro/custom/classic www.facebook.com/groups/249875865097198/
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Sorry , worded incorrectly average use before being scrapped is 17 years .Average age of on road vehicles is ...
"The average age of the vehicle stock also continues to grow. In 2008, cars licensed in Great Britain had been registered for an average of 7 years each. In 2007, however, the average car was registered for 6.8 years while in 2003 the average stood at 6.6 years. Licensed motorcycles have similarly shown growth, increasing from a 2003 average of 9.4 years since registration to an average of 10.4 years in 2008."
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willr
Part of things
Posts: 15
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it always surprises me the amount of people who get funny about mot tests. we don't fail cars to get work, we have more than enough anyway. but there are places out there who are dodgy. you just need to go by recomendations, thats how we get all our customers. and as for telling the station you'll get the car repaired some where else. its your car you can take it anywhere, they just do the test. funny buggers. will.
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Gray
Part of things
Silence isnt golden!!!
Posts: 742
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In a sense if the the onwers of the cars you mention Gary, are unaware of the state of their car maybe they should get a bit more involved with it and learn a bit more instead of blindly trusting people they don't know to take care of their car. I began to get involved and learn about my car as stopped believing everything a garage told me and wanted to be able to verify myself what they said without having to rely on another garages opinion entirely. That sounds good but not everyone is an enthusiast and alot of folk have zero interest. I know nothing about the circuits and electronics inside my welding plants (nor do I want to) and when they break I trust professionals to fix them. Horses for courses so to speak I have a couple of mot places I recommend, due to the fact I know they will ensure a safe car. One of the garages offers welding as a service yet the mot inspector sends his own cars to us for welding.... go figure
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Last Edit: Nov 2, 2010 20:30:10 GMT by Gray
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Garage labour = about £50 hour. MOT test is supposed to take an hour by the time you allow for paper work and moving cars about. Garages also have an investment in all the extra kit to do it. Most people want to pay £20 for their MOT. That's about 15 minutes work.
The place I go to I get a discount but they charge regular punters about £45 for the test. Its a fair honest test.
I don;t see how people doing cheap MOTs can be doing the job. They are either just skimping to get the volumes of cars through or they are using it as a loss leader to get the repair work.
Use a test centre which doesn't do repairs or at least does a proper (full price) MOT...
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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speedy88
Club Retro Rides Member
"Nice Cortina mate"
Posts: 2,296
Club RR Member Number: 118
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MOT woes.speedy88
@speedy88
Club Retro Rides Member 118
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Also using council MOT centres will stop you being duped into paying for repairs. The council people actually like this as it ensures that they have a job and the council doesn't cut them in the next budget!
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