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Oct 15, 2010 20:52:43 GMT
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what cars have them?
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Last Edit: Oct 28, 2010 18:03:54 GMT by poproddernot
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rodit
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,683
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Oct 15, 2010 20:54:12 GMT
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When you say sliding joint in what way do you mean?
Some have colapsible if hit or are we meaning sliding due to change when turning?
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Low and slow
Why can't i tune it?
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Oct 15, 2010 21:01:33 GMT
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sorry should of explained more, a sliding shaft(ooerr!!) like the bottom one.  |
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Last Edit: Oct 15, 2010 21:14:30 GMT by poproddernot
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Oct 15, 2010 21:10:28 GMT
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lots of RWD Fords had a traingular bit at the bottom that slides into a metal and rubber bush/joint thing if thats what you mean?
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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robg2
Part of things
Posts: 815
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Oct 15, 2010 21:20:11 GMT
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Midget I'm fairly certain - the 1500 variety.
Ps - you mean a telescopic column (one bit slides into the other) rather than one with UJs in it.
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Oct 15, 2010 21:59:26 GMT
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Midget I'm fairly certain - the 1500 variety. Ps - you mean a telescopic column (one bit slides into the other) rather than one with UJs in it. correct, but need telescopic column due to using a rack mounted onto a beam axle. |
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robg2
Part of things
Posts: 815
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Oct 15, 2010 23:02:22 GMT
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Telescopic colums are designed for crash - they'll telescope under some force, but I suspect that if you use it for a rack mounted on a beam axle then it'll have too much friction to telescope due to suspension travel. Ie the whole lot will bind up.
I think what you need is something like a rack with a centrally located pinion (ie neither left nor right hand drive) and a Watts linkage to make sure the take-off point on the beam axle only moves vertically. Mmm... that sounds a bit odd.
Got a sketch?
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Oct 15, 2010 23:10:21 GMT
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IMO it isn't going to work... why can't you mount the rack on the chassis like everyone else?
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in |
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Oct 15, 2010 23:13:11 GMT
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IMO it isn't going to work... why can't you mount the rack on the chassis like everyone else? with a beam!!! nope. |
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Oct 15, 2010 23:29:40 GMT
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normal suspesnion moves about with the rack fixed in place, is there a reason a rack wont work with a beam? you could always go with a steering box?
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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Oct 15, 2010 23:41:05 GMT
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Sounds like an odd setup but if I had to do it somehow I would be inclined to use a ballraced spline such as Datsun halfshaft, or a shaft with a sliding joint such as front driveshaft 'tripod' joint.
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Last Edit: Oct 16, 2010 11:39:03 GMT by datman
69 Plymouth Fury Convertible 75 Range Rover 2 door 82 Range Rover 4 door
84 Range Rover 4 door 78 Datsun 120Y 2 door 78 Datsun 120Y Coupe
78 Datsun 620 Pickup 81 Datsun Urvan E23 86 Datsun Vanette van
98 Electric Citroen Berlingo 00 Electric Peugeot Partner 02 Electric Citroen Berlingo 76 Honda C50
04 Berlingo Multispace petrol 07 Land Rover 130 15 Nissan E-NV200 15 Fiat Ducato
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IMO it isn't going to work... why can't you mount the rack on the chassis like everyone else? with a beam!!! nope. OK, why?* I can't think of a single (manufactured) vehicle with the steering gear attached to a sprung member, sounds like trouble to me. But hey, what would I know? Your ride your way. *edit - I do know you can't usually use a rack with a beam, I'm wondering why you are... |
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in |
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Oct 16, 2010 10:37:04 GMT
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I'd stick with a steering box if I were you. Beam axle suspension is never going to be the cutting edge of handling anyway, so I don't think you'd notice the minute difference between a steering box in good condition and a rack and pinion steering system. There are some pretty nice-handling sports cars with recirculating ball steering you know! If you've got your heart set on a rack-like steering system to use with a beam axle, there is only one such setup which I know of that actually works, hydraulic steering.  Plenty of vehicles with beam axles (almost always live axles on 4wd vehicles or equipment) have successfully used hydraulic steering. I think that it would be a cool engineering feature on a street rod, and there's no reason why it wouldn't work! |
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Oct 16, 2010 11:03:38 GMT
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And completely illegal and downright stupid.. imminent crash, all it needs is an engine stall.
Normal power steering is failsafe, it has a direct mechanical connection even if the hydraulics fail.
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69 Plymouth Fury Convertible 75 Range Rover 2 door 82 Range Rover 4 door
84 Range Rover 4 door 78 Datsun 120Y 2 door 78 Datsun 120Y Coupe
78 Datsun 620 Pickup 81 Datsun Urvan E23 86 Datsun Vanette van
98 Electric Citroen Berlingo 00 Electric Peugeot Partner 02 Electric Citroen Berlingo 76 Honda C50
04 Berlingo Multispace petrol 07 Land Rover 130 15 Nissan E-NV200 15 Fiat Ducato
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Oct 16, 2010 11:18:41 GMT
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And completely illegal and downright stupid.. imminent crash, all it needs is an engine stall. Normal power steering is failsafe, it has a direct mechanical connection even if the hydraulics fail. Very true. Still safer than putting a steering rack on a sprung member though I reckon. Steering columns are not meant to be part of the suspension system. |
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dw1603
Part of things
Posts: 591
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Oct 16, 2010 17:28:43 GMT
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One of the jet powered dragsters that ran at SantaPod had a rack mounted to a Transit beam axle. The steering shaft ran parallel to the four link and was the same length, so there was minimum plunge. Only one end of the rack was connected to a steering spindle and it ran a pretty normal looking tie bar, though I couldn't see why it shouldn't have both ends of the rack coupled up and do away with the tie bar. As far as I know it performed satisfactorily and the only obvious drawback was the increase in unsprung weight.
I did doodle up a scheme once to use a rack mounted longitudinally with one end coupled to the spindle of a beam axle in the normal way. The project never went anywhere, so I don't know how successful it would have been.
A passing thought ... I have seen a couple of instances on here where people throw up their hands in horror at the suggestion of hydraulic steering. We are all quite happy to entrust our braking ability to a column of pressurised fluid aren't we?
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Oct 16, 2010 17:39:09 GMT
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^ I think the main difference between hydraulic brakes and hydraulic steering is that one is direct acting and the other relies on an engine driven pump for pressure..
I have found an instance of a car with a solid front axle and a rack mounted to it, with a plunging joint in the column.
Colin Chapman used this configuration on the lotus 58 (the front beam is actually a de-dion axle) but as far as I can see the car never raced and Lotus never tried it again (and nor did anyone else)
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in |
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Oct 16, 2010 18:08:15 GMT
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hydraulic brakes come with a legally required mechanical back up.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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Oct 16, 2010 19:12:12 GMT
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poprodder - we've done this exact conversion with my dad's model Y special. I'll get some details for you later if you want - can probably get you some pics too if it would help. Joe edit: have a look here if you want more words of encouragement on the subject! www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=403023 |
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Last Edit: Oct 16, 2010 19:16:18 GMT by Deleted
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,873
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Oct 16, 2010 19:53:41 GMT
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There isn't a problem mounting a rack to a beam, loads better than any steering box ever!. We made a sliding joint for a mates car, just a long splined section so the female part could ride up and down. However if you get the steering column right you can do without it. If you lay the rack so that the output shaft is coming out horizontal, then make the first section of the steering column the same length as the (split?)wishbone, it doesn't need to slide.
Matt
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