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it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts
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What you want is one of them Diahatsu Mira TRXX Omgwtfbbqpj+dunc thingy's...
Not vast amounts of power but they are mega light, & you'd never need brakes as you can steer them on the throttle over looser 'rally' type surfaces.
Grin-inducing. 10/10
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Rally Cars FWD vs RWD?BenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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I always find FWD cars understeer too much - although with tweaking they don't. RWD is way more fun, and is where the power should be going in a car I reckon a Skoda Estelle would be excellent - I'd love to build a rally slaag one! Dunno if you can easily get uprated parts from CZ though...
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FWD can be made to oversteer, ask any of the previous passengers of my Golf, or my Scirocco's But seriously. It's all about getting the cornering right, no matter what car you are in. If you gun too hard into a corner, you'll loose speed, through over or understeer. Sideways is fun, but it ain't quick, a RWD car is better when its hugging the surface, not when it's scrabbling for grip. FWD's on the whole are faster for corners, (if you can heel and toe properly), but loose points on traction, RWD is better off the mark. But with FWD, if you loose the front, you are gone, in RWD, you can throttle steer and use opposite lock. Swings and roundabouts.
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The lurker formerly known as Cappuccinocruiser.. or wedgedout..
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Nick
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,483
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Apr 12, 2006 10:25:01 GMT
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disagree on losing the front on a fwd and "you are gone" i had this once in my ford focus diesel.. ended up completely broadside when "a*seing about" and just kept my foot planted. smoked up the wheels a good un and pulled itself back straight, i think if you can get past the initial reaction to get off the throttle, fwd's are pretty easy to recover from ridiculours angles/situations.
i see each car as just another thing to rag about and have fun in, if i had to choose it would be rwd though every time.
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idea stolen from rattely eddie.
this weeks car count "5"
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Apr 12, 2006 10:33:20 GMT
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I'm of the opposite opinion. Loose the front on a FWD car and all you need to do is gently lift the throttle (a natural reaction anyway) and unwind some of the lock until the tires get traction again. Or, if you're feeling brave, keep your right foot planted on the throttle and sharply jab the brake pedal with your left foot to break the rear wheels free whilst working the steering to gather it all up.
With RWD, if the front starts to go it's a brave man who can apply a boot full of throttle as you're rapidly under steering into the scenery. Not a natural reaction at all and takes a lot of commitment.
I suppose it all comes down to what you have the most experience with and what you are more comfortable with.
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tenman
Part of things
m00000000000
Posts: 899
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Apr 12, 2006 10:35:32 GMT
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would HAVE to be RWD for me... hehe, don't think there's a finer rally car than the MKI or MKII Scort to be honest...
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RWD Fanatic...
2003 BMW 320d Wagon (getting old and boring) 1996 Mini Kensington (SWMBO's)
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Apr 12, 2006 10:35:49 GMT
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disagree on losing the front on a fwd and "you are gone" i had this once in my ford focus diesel.. ended up completely broadside when "a*seing about" and just kept my foot planted. smoked up the wheels a good un and pulled itself back straight, i think if you can get past the initial reaction to get off the throttle, fwd's are pretty easy to recover from ridiculours angles/situations. i see each car as just another thing to rag about and have fun in, if i had to choose it would be rwd though every time. Well this is true, but it's far less controllable in an FWD car when it does go. In the rocco, I used to heel and toe into the corner and blat the throttle if the back chose to go, in the golf, if the front started to go I'd lift off and then use the go pedal to allow it to snap back in ;D for monster fun. What I should have said, is in an FWD car, if the front goes, you are more likely to loose it all than in a RWD. But you can chuck an FWD car into the bends faster that RWD.
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The lurker formerly known as Cappuccinocruiser.. or wedgedout..
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Apr 12, 2006 10:39:51 GMT
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I'm looking forward to a trackday to fully explore RWD handling, too dodgy on the roads really.
My old small FWD's were slippery and wheelspinny, but loads of fun and never got into anything too hairy i couldn't get out of. i'd have another one, just for this reason
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it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts
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Rally Cars FWD vs RWD?BenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Apr 12, 2006 10:47:50 GMT
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I'm led to believe that most cars are set up from the factory to err on the side of understeer, as a bit of understeer can be corrected by lifting off the trottle and adjusting the steering until you gather it all back up - it's a bit more of a natural reaction than steering into a skid in an oversteering car. I find it a lot more disconcerting when I'm in an understeer situation - you steer and the thing just ploughs straight on for the scenery. My old Skoda Rabid used to oversteer like nothing else, and I would say that I prefer cars that do that (maybe not quite as tail-happy as the old Skud though). But with the big lumbering tanks I drive, it's understeer all the way with them! ;D
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Apr 12, 2006 12:00:27 GMT
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RWD, always.
Half for the style (my old Sylva Striker 'blade wasn't too shabby getting round roundabouts) but half for fixability. curse word a front corner on a FWD and it's a blinkin' struggle to get it right again with all that goes on through the front wheels. However on a RWD things are not doing so much at the front and with an LSD you can even drive with a driveshaft out of action, so accidents are both less terminal on the stage and to your wallet when you get back home. :idea:
I'd even look at a stripped 240 with welded back doors or 340 (3dr) with a cage for starters, quite robust and plenty to play with, also quite a few family parts to nick should the wish for more power (both stopping and going) become an issue.
BB
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Yesterday at 7:54, pogweasel wrote:
Nothing wrong with creature comforts. If I want masochism, I'll just go and slam my knackers in the fridge door for a bit.
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Apr 12, 2006 12:06:56 GMT
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Yesterday at 7:54, pogweasel wrote:
Nothing wrong with creature comforts. If I want masochism, I'll just go and slam my knackers in the fridge door for a bit.
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Apr 12, 2006 12:14:26 GMT
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Yesterday at 7:54, pogweasel wrote:
Nothing wrong with creature comforts. If I want masochism, I'll just go and slam my knackers in the fridge door for a bit.
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Apr 12, 2006 12:17:35 GMT
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Yesterday at 7:54, pogweasel wrote:
Nothing wrong with creature comforts. If I want masochism, I'll just go and slam my knackers in the fridge door for a bit.
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Apr 12, 2006 12:18:04 GMT
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My standard 360 handled horrible but i see the point they are strong dependable little fuggers!
Is it too early to add 4wd to the melting pot?
Your entry fwd or rwd rally car?
Your entry 4wd rally car?
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it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts
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Apr 12, 2006 12:52:38 GMT
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Any of the ovlovs above, and 4WD or niice
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Yesterday at 7:54, pogweasel wrote:
Nothing wrong with creature comforts. If I want masochism, I'll just go and slam my knackers in the fridge door for a bit.
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Apr 12, 2006 13:09:05 GMT
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Last Edit: Apr 12, 2006 13:20:37 GMT by samyboy
once again rocking with 1117cc and 4 gears!
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Apr 12, 2006 13:43:16 GMT
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i had one of them rally-driving-experience thingies a year or so ago.... bit disappointing when i turned up and there was a mk2 golf gti for the gravel, and a mk3 for the tarmac.
i've never been quite so sideways in a FWD car, it was amazing. one quick lift and the scenery just went the wrong way past the windscreen, dead reliable oversteer, dead easy to pull off and none of the problems associated with a learner in a RWD endlessly doing 180's
I also span my G40 on a wet roundabout, but that was through a'sing about and wasn't repeated in a hurry! massive amounts of engine braking + 2nd gear + slippy tyres = facing where you've just been.
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Never trust a man Who names himself Trevor. Or one day you might find He's not a real drug dealer.
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Apr 12, 2006 18:53:51 GMT
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It all depends how much money you have and how competitive you want to be.
To win a clubman event there are normally two types of car at the top 4wd turbos and well sorted and well driven rwd`s. The four wheel drive cars are normally driven as point and squirt cars. very little sideways action as the owner/drivers have too much money tied up in their cars to take too many risks. A well sorted rwd can win a clubman event particulary if its on tarmac. 4WD will nearly always win on gravel or forests.
Front wheel drive is faster than a similar power RWD car on loose surface.
don't worry about the lack of fun from a front drive, lift off oversteer and use of the handbrake make up for it. Most well sorted front drivers have very little understeer.
I co-drive for my brother in law in his rally cars and we normally calculate it at 500-750 to do any clubman rally. That is at the bottom rung doing everything as cheaply as possible. You need a new set of tyres each event your previous ones you can keep as your spares (colway 120-160), entry fee around £200 (forest normally more sealed tarmacc/airfield maybe less). By the time you add your fuel and service barge fuel plus any other spares needed or repairs from previous rallys, it soon adds up.
Forest rallys are normally 30-50 stage mile for £250. Otterburn is one of the best value rallys in the UK around 90 stage miles for just under £200.
Its often cheaper to buy a car ready prepared with a log book as it costs quite a bit to get kitted up initially, extinguishers, cage, seats etc.. and that without car modifications. Race suits and helmets work out close to £200 per person at the cheap end of the scale.
I was thinking of starting endurance rallying. Forest stages standard engine/interior car must be less than 1.4. The Lombard RAC endurance rally for this year is £1400 entry fee and its already fully booked (over 1000 people for about 150 spaces).
Historic rallying is where a lot of people are now headed as the costs are normally cheaper and there are classes for upto 1984 (i think). My brother in law is currently on building a mk1 avenger to start taking part in this.
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Apr 12, 2006 19:01:48 GMT
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1972 Fiat 130 1985 Talbot Alpine 1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 + 1986 Mazda 929 Koop + Wagon 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 BEST CAR EVER!!!!!!!! 1979 Datsun B310 Sunny 4-dr 1984 Audi 200 Quattro Turbo 1983 Honda Accord 1.6 DX GONE1989 Alfa 75 2.0 TS Mr T says: TREAT YO MOTHER RIGHT!
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