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Jul 14, 2004 21:20:08 GMT
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Jul 15, 2004 17:17:20 GMT
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Ooh! I'll ave that! But my wish list would also include a blueprinted Vauxhall XE and matching Vauxhall 5-speed from an Astra GTE (those Simcas are Front Wheel Drive, aren't they?)
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"He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!"
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Jul 15, 2004 18:01:30 GMT
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tis indeed FWD, but they are very tuneable. The rear engined 1000 Rallye was a bit of stinker - they never developed it properly but these have real potential...
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Jul 15, 2004 18:53:52 GMT
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Don't you think the rear engined Simcas look like Imps? They were Rootes Group too, so I think they must have been sharing design sketches or something. I prefer Imps though. Soooo tuneable, and Imps look better too.
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"He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!"
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Jul 15, 2004 21:30:53 GMT
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They do look like imps don't they? From what I've read the Imps especially in the later years were, like you say, far better cars. Shame really, as the 1301/1501 and 1100 cars were really well preportioned. A lasting legacy of this is the legendary Talbot Matra Rancho.
My mum had an Imp as her first car, I loved it because I used to crawl in and out of the rear window!
Renault 8's have the Imp/Simca 1000 feel to them too. There was some links between Smca and Hillman but as far as I know there are absolutely no parts shared between them.
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Jul 15, 2004 21:44:39 GMT
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Wow! the Talbot Matra Rancho. My dad had one in the early '80s on a Y plate from new. It was the most fantastic family car if a little under powered (1400cc). A people carrier well before it's time. Thw rear body was fibreglass I think and the tailgate was horizontally split. We used it for camping with a trailer tent a lot. Ooh, the memories!  |
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Peugeot 307sw - Suzuki SV650S - MX5.
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Jul 15, 2004 22:10:14 GMT
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Shillingbury Tales... the Matra Rancho's one brush with TV fame... you could win one in the TV Times...
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You're right about the parts sharing. i've owned Imps and I'e never found anything on them that I've ever seen on a Simca. I wonder of they shared some design team though, there has to be something going on. The car that looks most like an Imp is the Russian ZAZ 966 though. That seems to be an almost complete copy, ZAZ weren't Rootes, although they had a Russian made air cooled V4 engine, had nice little vents to cool the engine on the rear wings (wouldn't mind getting a set for one of my Imps!) and didn't have an opening rear window, so sorry datsuncherry, but no getting out through the back door!
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"He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!"
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Jul 16, 2004 10:14:11 GMT
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Nice isn't it? Although I'd have to put a tuned Imp engine and gearbox in it, apparently ZAZ gearboxes are curse word and they break down all the time. But they have separate petrol driven heaters that work even when the ignition isn't turned on, a little like a modern lorry's night-heater. That would be handy when you can't get the car started in winter for about half an hour, eh? (note how everyone who's ever owned an old car nods in agreement!) Then I'd have a roll-cage made up for it, a nice set of Recaro buckets, probably adapt Imps suspension for it too, since I would already be using the engine and transmission, and also because Imps can be made to use Fiesta XR2 brakes if neeeded, but to be honest Imps don't normally need new brakes, unless you're really tuning them up! Then I'd top it off with Wellers or Minilites, and some nice Volvo silver paint. This daydreaming stuff's great, innit?   |
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"He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!"
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RA40tony
Europe
Rollin' rollin' rollin'
Posts: 768
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Jul 16, 2004 11:57:04 GMT
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1979 Toyota Celica GT. Currently Gone.
1975 Toyota Celica ST. 13x7 Allycats, "the stick" applied. 100kW 4AGE... Sold
1963 Karmann Ghia - Lo & Slo, Sold.
1965 VW Fastback - cruising
1953 Oval Ragtop, work in progress...
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Jul 16, 2004 13:44:00 GMT
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It does a bit! I'd have to have the ZAZ 966 for rarity though. There can't be many of those left, especially in this part of the world! That and I love those little vents in the side. Why didn't Imps have those?!
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"He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!"
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Jul 16, 2004 17:32:36 GMT
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The rear engine Simca was actually originally a design for Fiat to replace the 600 but they went with the 850 instead. I have seen photos of the prototype Fiat 850s and the Simca 1000 design is one of them. Speaking of which i once read the original Nissan Micra was a design proposal to replace the Fiat 127 but Fiat went with the Uno design
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Jul 16, 2004 17:50:45 GMT
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Those Zaz's are really neat. I know one was sent here for evaluation but apparently the handling on those skinny russian tyres was a bit tricky! A bit like driving a corvair on a road of banana's......
Speaking of which the Rootes design team (Bob Saward) in the looked very closely at the Chevrolet Corvair's design for Rootes new small car. The Rootes bods made it clear they didn't want a bubble car as bubble car lacked the prestige of the then current Humbers and minx's.
If anything the Simca corporation (Pre-rootes - I think Simca was partly owned by Fiat) probabily looked over the pond and thought....'hmmm lets make a French Imp'.
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Jul 16, 2004 18:00:52 GMT
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Blue850,
Did you know the Daewoo Matiz/AtoZ was originally supposed to be the Cinquecento replacement?
I find it fascinating what designs are rejected by some are picked up by others. Pininfarina designed a series of very sleek looking replacements for the 1800/2200 (Landcrab) for BMC/British Leyland (now Rover). They didn't like the designs because they thought they could do better. They came up with the Princess. (which to be fair isn't a bad looking machine) Citroen picked the designs up from Pininfarina, tweaked them a bit and they became the GS and CX......oh what could have been.....
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Jul 16, 2004 18:10:09 GMT
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I had heard that about the Corvair connection, a Corvair Monza coupe looks near identical to a Sunbeam Stiletto Coupe, but the Imp range handles! I'm bloody glad they went with a proper saloon, Isettas and Heinkels are cute but Imps are proper rallyable, pretty little sporty saloons! The Imp has a very slight VW connection too! Ater World War 2, Hillman were offered the designs and tooling for what would be the VW Beetle, captured by the British Army, and asked if they wanted to make it as a new Hillman. Apparently they answered that there was never going to be a demand for a mass-produced, rear engined, British-made Saloon-car. (odd, since they went on to the the only company to sell a "mass-produced, rear engined, British-made Saloon-car", the Hillman Imp range!) Of course the VW (that sold 21, 000, 000,) was the best selling single model of all time, and the Imp, (which only sold 440, 013 in 13 years) while at least as good a car as a Beetle, and with one of the best small engines ever made, never sold nearly well enough to save Rootes collapsing! Shame, isn't it?
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"He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!"
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Jul 16, 2004 18:15:18 GMT
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Yeah BMC really lost out there (too conservative??)and have you ever seen photos of a prototype Rover P6 which has a front like a Citroen DS?
I've got a book on Triumph 2000's which has a photo of the original design. It loooks like a distorted Ford Anglia with 4 doors
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Jul 16, 2004 18:28:10 GMT
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I've seen that P6 - might have been at Gaydon or Beaulieu once.
Triumph had the best deal with car styling - Michellotti stepped in and did some of the best British designed cars ever. Look at the rear C pillar of a dolomite and look where BMW got that from!
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Jul 16, 2004 18:33:24 GMT
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Still, sometimes the companies do the right thing. Have you ever seen the prototypes for a 'modern' Trabant. They made it just before the brand name disapeared, and it was to replace the famous air-cooled legend. The body was smoothed out a bit, and modernised, as well as getting black bumpers (see pics) and the engine became a water-cooled 1200cc inline 4 based on a VW Polo unit. Luckily, it never got out, it was bloody sacrilige against the genius of the original Trabi design! (don't anybody laugh! ) Before:   After:    |
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"He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!"
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Jul 16, 2004 18:43:57 GMT
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hmmmm..thats pretty cheap and nasty!
I wonder if they gave Linda Barker 100 Euor's and a sheet of MDF to do this redesign?
Its a bit like the 126 BIS facelift, giving the car a hatchback and adding those bumpers really upset the cars balance. There's been countless decent looking cars over the years which have been ruined by 'progress'...
Anyone else think of any re-design hashes?
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Jul 16, 2004 19:00:34 GMT
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There's those Daewoos that are just badly tarted up mk 2 Astras and look it! Or some of the newer Indian made Mahindra Jeeps. Those are just WW2 Willys Jeeps, still made, but with stupid plastic trim and silly wannabe modern Wrangler interiors and colours. I don't need to tell you the result! (although some of the single cab pickups still look respectable!) Before: Straight from the set of MASH-  After: Straight from the scene of a crime against taste!  |
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"He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!"
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