|
|
Mar 15, 2006 17:04:17 GMT
|
to use a turbocharger as a supercharge.
i mean, rigging up the turbine spindle so it could be ran off the cambelt instead.
i know of a shedload of turbos knocking about that could donate there lives to being converted ;D
|
|
|
|
|
том
Posted a lot
"If in doubt, flat out!"
Posts: 2,707
|
|
Mar 15, 2006 17:11:45 GMT
|
turbo's are very simple, but they can spin up to 180,000, and the kit to balance them costs 20 grand, and if its not exactly right, as soon as you start the engine, the turbo will destroy it's self. Just my 2p's worth, i don't think turbo, and rigging up should be in the same sentence. Not summit ya bodge. But hey, i could be wrong, i have been before
|
|
1988 V8 Rangey Bobtail :: 1968 Volvo Amazon 133 Ratrod :: 1977 Land Rover 88 :: 1985 Opel Monza GSE :: 1983 MKII Fiesta
|
|
|
|
Mar 15, 2006 17:22:06 GMT
|
my thoughts would be - why?? If you have turbo's - then turbo the engine!
|
|
|
|
|
is it possibleBenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
|
Mar 15, 2006 17:39:13 GMT
|
I think the main obstacle would be the type of bearings that turbos and superchargers have - turbos use floating bearings which are fine for turbines driven by exhaust gases, but if you're running it on a belt there's gonnas be a whole lot more load on the bearings and I'd think it'd wear pretty quickly. Of course, there are superchargers that work just like a turbo but are belt driven, but I'd hazard a guess that the bearings would be different
|
|
|
|
bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,946
Club RR Member Number: 71
Member is Online
|
is it possiblebstardchild
@bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member 71
|
Mar 15, 2006 17:42:04 GMT
|
Not to mention the gearing that would be required to go from engine RPM to 180,000 rpm
Eaton chargers aren't that dear - flog all the turbos and buy one of them
Any of them T25's?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 15, 2006 17:43:09 GMT
|
i was justr being curious, you can pick uyp a deisel turbo from any old scrappy for pennies, might be a cheaper alternative to these eaton jobbies for you home brewer types.
didnt think it would work but i thought it would be a good topic of discussion nevertheless ;D
by 'access to loads of turbos' i mean, in scrapyards, not like a sotreroom full of them ;D
|
|
|
|
|
is it possibleBenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
|
Mar 15, 2006 17:47:17 GMT
|
I like musing about stuff like this too! I doubt it's beyond the realms of possibility to build a supercharger around a turbo, with different bearings and that. But by the time that's all done you might as well have fabbed up an exhaust manifold and strapped the turbo to it. But then with a supercharger you don't get lag!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 15, 2006 17:49:00 GMT
|
But then with a supercharger you don't get lag! you don't need to with a turbo either though. but with a supercharger you're 'wasting' power to move the belt in the first place. Back to what was initially said - I'm sure it could be done as well. But for the cost involved you might as well get hold of a turbo if you want to turbo the motor, or a supercharger if you want to go down that path ....
|
|
Last Edit: Mar 15, 2006 17:52:57 GMT by Keefy
|
|
том
Posted a lot
"If in doubt, flat out!"
Posts: 2,707
|
|
Mar 15, 2006 17:53:59 GMT
|
But then with a supercharger you don't get lag! you don't need to with a turbo either though. 2 turbo's one big ass fat one with huge lag, and one small one, with no lag, that boosts while the other one is laggin, then ends when the big'un kicks in. ;D so cool
|
|
1988 V8 Rangey Bobtail :: 1968 Volvo Amazon 133 Ratrod :: 1977 Land Rover 88 :: 1985 Opel Monza GSE :: 1983 MKII Fiesta
|
|
|
|
Mar 15, 2006 17:57:55 GMT
|
Bearing wise you could have a driven shaft supported on two bearings taking the load from the belt attached to the turbo. Gearing wise you would have some interesting sized pulleys. Might as well put a penny farthing under the bonnet ;D
|
|
|
|
|
|
is it possibleBenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
|
Mar 15, 2006 18:01:02 GMT
|
2 turbo's one big ass fat one with huge lag, and one small one, with no lag, that boosts while the other one is laggin, then ends when the big'un kicks in. ;D so cool Sequential turbos... I don't think anyone has cracked that yet... seems like a whole world of pain!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 15, 2006 18:02:01 GMT
|
you don't need to with a turbo either though. 2 turbo's one big ass fat one with huge lag, and one small one, with no lag, that boosts while the other one is laggin, then ends when the big'un kicks in. ;D so cool yeah, but you can pretty much achieve the same with one turbo if its all put together to work in harmony
|
|
|
|
том
Posted a lot
"If in doubt, flat out!"
Posts: 2,707
|
|
Mar 15, 2006 18:07:58 GMT
|
i thought they had it in the latest evo/scooby/summit, they had it on top gear, jezza was goin on about it
|
|
1988 V8 Rangey Bobtail :: 1968 Volvo Amazon 133 Ratrod :: 1977 Land Rover 88 :: 1985 Opel Monza GSE :: 1983 MKII Fiesta
|
|
|
is it possibleDeleted
@Deleted
|
Mar 15, 2006 18:08:33 GMT
|
You can do it!
I saw a lotus with one in there and I was going to try it myself. You need a bigger turbo than you'd normally need for turbocharging and you need to turn up a fairly broad bearing housing to take the load of the belt. Inside you need to gear it up 2 or 3:1 so it's spinning double engine revs or faster, you can get sealed bearings that will take 40,000rpm or if you want to go faster use an oil bath and an open bearing. Then on the outside you pulley it up like you normally would do on a supercharger.
What to watch is that type of supercharger is a compressor and not a 'blower'. When it's spinning slowly you don't get much boost, when it spools up the boost increases exponentially so you don't get the instant hit like you do with a rootes style blower, so it's very top-endy. Look up centrifugal superchargers, they are the same thing.
|
|
Last Edit: Mar 15, 2006 18:10:43 GMT by Deleted
|
|
|
|
Mar 15, 2006 18:16:27 GMT
|
Thats basically what a Rotrex is.... Compressor housing and impellor attached to an Epicyclic gearbox..... Wrong though as its all the bad characteristics of a Turbo with none of the benefits..... Lysholm charger is what you want, loads of grunt off idle with boost at the top end Super efficient and best of both worlds, especially in a Road car
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 15, 2006 18:30:44 GMT
|
jeremy clarkson was talking rubbish on that topgear with the mitsi, what he referred to as lag was actually the boost threshold. No turbo that is sized to make power will ever come on boost in top at 10mph!
I built a supercharger from a big holset HX35 turbo at college, it was pretty much just to show fabrication skills and so never got used in anger. It is also a lot of work as the only bits you can use from the turbo are the impeller and housing, the back plate gearbox and bearing mounts need to be fabricated. Also the size of the shaft on the impeller is too small to be directly engine driven, the inertia of the wheel slowing 70krpm will twist the stock one into knots! It ideally would be bored out to around 15mm and a titanium hollow shaft fitted.
J
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 15, 2006 18:37:11 GMT
|
Rotrex are pretty good, heard some rave reviews of them. None of the disadvantages of a conventional supercharger (bar some losses due to drag) and much less lag than a comparible centrifual supercharger or a turbo. A lot of it is down to setting everything up right, not the kind of unit you chose as well
|
|
Last Edit: Mar 15, 2006 18:49:19 GMT by akku
1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
|
|
|
|
Mar 15, 2006 18:45:08 GMT
|
jeremy clarkson was talking rubbish on that topgear with the mitsi, what he referred to as lag was actually the boost threshold. No turbo that is sized to make power will ever come on boost in top at 10mph! that episode angered me so much! it was fcuking obvious what was going to happen, why the fcuk bother. What kinda retard drives in top at low speeds? no-one. So why bother doing it in a test, it doesnt show anything.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 15, 2006 18:48:39 GMT
|
clarkeson is a curse word plain and simple
|
|
1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
|
|
|
|
Mar 15, 2006 18:52:33 GMT
|
Then again its the fool that makes me laugh??
J
|
|
|
|
|