MWF
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,945
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Dec 24, 2005 12:44:47 GMT
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This is my take on things.
This isn't really about the monitoring of the cars, this is about a general distrust of the police and it's not exclusive to motorists. I read recently that 49% of people in Staffordshire don't trust their local police force.
You can look at anything the police do in two ways, either it's a positive to catch criminals and reduce crime or it's a negative to control the innocent.
What I thing this all actually boils down to is the automation of proscecution. Most drive around in the confidence that should we get pulled over the officer will see we are respectable abiding citizens and if caught going a bit quick then judgement will be made on gut feel. However computers can't do this.
This proposed system could potentially benefit us all massively, but it depends on how you look at it and how much you trust the justice system. I have a lot of faith in the system but then I'm linked quite closely within it, I can't blame others for thinking otherwise.
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Dec 24, 2005 13:13:05 GMT
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You're not wrong! The Police seem a little lazy at actually attending to residents concerns around here. I live in a street near the centre of town with pubs at both ends of the street. Without fail there will be some drama every weekend. Fighting, vandalism, thefts! Every one of my cars has been vandalised at some point (my Mini was done a couple of days ago). Are the Police interested? Are they balls! They might actually drag themselves out after two hours have elapsed from reporting something, to tell you there is nothing they can do, if they can be bothered to come out at all. However, if someone calls them to report a car with a tax disc 1 day out of date, they will be here before the phone has been hung up. Money grabbing toss-pieces. Oops, I've probably just made myself a target for Staffs police now We're also going to be subject to the 'pay-per-mile' scheme soon. We still have to pay for a tax disc though! So it's an added expense, which is nice. Who the bloody hell wants to travel anywhere in Staffs anyway?! Personally, I wouldn't mind so much if they actually improved the quality of our tired old cart tracks roads. They are a disgrace, but that's drifting off topic now. Ultimimately, all of these new proposed monitoring schemes will cause more uninsured, unregistered cars to be driving around on our roads. So as usual, it will be the honest and Innocent motorists who will be getting punished, while the people who need to be targeted will continue to get off scott free!
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MWF
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,945
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Dec 24, 2005 17:09:36 GMT
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I think you are blaming all the wrong people really. Would you call a police officer a "Lazy money grabbing toss piece"? to his face. Even better do it at 3am tonight when they are working their night shift because modern society enoucrages people to drink till they are dissorderly.
The problem lies with society in general and laws of proscecution which make it really hard for the police to bring justice to criminal acts but it's all slowly changing.
The reason police are more likely to tackle tax disks than vandalism and theft is a simple one, it's relatively a breeze to proove a car hasn't been taxed on time compared to just how much work has to go into chasing up other crimes. The police force is simply over stretched and I don't feel it fair to blame them for that. Either way as easy as it is to check a tax disk on a car it's also easy to tax it so I have no pity on an individual who can't do that.
There seems to be a huge amount of speculation on here with little regard for the actual facts. A lot of you are just ranting on about things you've invented in your heads.
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Last Edit: Dec 24, 2005 17:10:07 GMT by MWF
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Dec 24, 2005 18:28:44 GMT
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from my experiences the Police come across as lazy when it comes to theft, etc. we've had cars broken into a few times, and they come out (once i think it was the day after we reported it ), have a look around, and do really do anything. How hard is it to search for finger prints really? it got to the point where we'd report it just to push their figures up knowing fine well they'd do nothing to help. i was once attacked in the street, and we went to the police...and they did everything, and they even said there was CCTV covering that area, but nothing came of it. wonder why similiar to my complaint to the police when one of thier officers drove dangerously (NOT answering a call), so i reported them. 'Oh i'll make some enquires and ring you back' did they bo11ox. Didn't even have the courtesey to ring back and tell me nothing was found. i understand that the police have a bit of a challenge on fri/sat/sun nights with the drunks, but what about the rest of the time? All you ever see them doing is setting up speed traps round here...
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Dec 24, 2005 18:50:15 GMT
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MWF, I can see where you're coming from. The police are overstretched and in many cases they don't have the necessary power to do much at all.
I wouldn't say that I don't trust the police, but I have no faith in their abilties to catch criminals and have them brought to justice. Having dealt with the police on nine occasions this year involving vandalism, attempted theft of my cars, and a case of assault, not once have they actually done anything at all. Last christmas a drunk 15 year old ran into the side of my car and hurt herself, so I called the police....they didn't even visit the scene, didn't so much as take my address or registration number! Just my name and phone number. They didn't have the manpower to deal with the incident, so took my word for it when I explained what had happened. Good job I'm honest!
If I drive around without tax, or MOT or insurance, or if I'm driving really badly, I expect to get busted and pay the price. If the "big brother" cameras are to be used sensibly to prosecute for these sorts of offences, therefore freeing up police resources to deal with other more serious issues, great. Seems a lot more likely, though, that they'll be used to save money by taking more police off the streets, rather than deploying them elsewhere, where they are desperately needed.
I'm as guilty as the next man when it comes to making assumptions as to how the camera system will be used and what the long term effects will be. Perhaps the sensible way forward is (yet again) to pressure MPs etc, by letting them know exactly what we as motorists do feel is acceptable in terms of "them watching us", enquiring how the scheme will develop in future and perhaps most importantly, ensuring that we are made aware of these developments. Forewarned is forearmed.
To some extent, what happens next is down to the voting public - do we want cheap council tax or a proper justice system....
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My fleet: Suzuki GSX-R600Y SRAD with bald, melted tyres A borrowed Mondeo
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MWF
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,945
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Dec 25, 2005 10:34:48 GMT
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I'm glad you see my point. The police really made a mistake with the way they brought speed cameras in the country and will pay the price of that PR disaster for years to come.
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Dec 25, 2005 14:24:39 GMT
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I think you are blaming all the wrong people really. Would you call a police officer a "Lazy money grabbing toss piece"? to his face. Even better do it at 3am tonight when they are working their night shift because modern society enoucrages people to drink till they are dissorderly. This I can see the sense in, I hope my posts don't come accross as being anti-all policemen, I don't hate inidvidual rank and file coppers, who mostly aren't as lazy and incompetant as people claim, there are of course exceptions, but you'll find jobswsorths and incompetant b*stards in any organisation, not just the police. I know some policemen personally who are a reasonable lot. Anyway, the real blame for the police's ineffectiveness lies with their superiors, again, like most organisations, the ineffective, the corrupt and the incompetant often float straight to the top and leave competant people slaving away beneath them, this is the case in the police as far as I can tell, and also the case with our government, I can't help thinking that I've eaten curries who would make better Prime Ministers than the one we have just now. Unfortunately, the incompetance of those at the top severely limits the good that individual coppers can actually do, because their orders come from people who would be better employed as villiage idiots or as target practice for police marksmen. Orwell described Britain as "a family with all the wrong members in charge", which to me is as true now as it was then, Britain is full of competant, hardworking, honest, people, yet the desicions are made by corrupt, useless b*stards, which is the reason the country is in such a disgraceful state from top to bottom.
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"He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy!"
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As we wondered off topic a bit yeah we did speculate, but i have littele reason to trust our politicians or local police. This is the way i felt before christmas. I have met a couple of nice old skool cops too and wouldn't want to offend anyone who does a good friendly job, but something seems wrong at the top IMO and it filters down. just found out a peaceful law abiding family member was arrested for no reason out of his quiet bed at 11pm by 6 cops. they let him out at 6am with no money or keys and no charge. WTF! i smell a rat. icing on the cake, on top of a bunch of other incidents. *steers back on topic*
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it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts
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Nick
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,483
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i don't think there is a place such as land of the free, but there is definately somewhere less ass bakcwards than this sh*thole, i think anyone who doesnt find it slightly worrying has something slightly wrong with their brain, i really value my privacy, and in general am a law abiding citizen. so i don't have anything to hide but i really hate the idea of being monitored. might have to go live at my parents house in france that place is so out of the way it makes such a refreshing change to here.
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idea stolen from rattely eddie.
this weeks car count "5"
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