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Minor update - more to follow in a couple of weeks (I have a few things in the way like the Classic Le Mans)
After a couple of evenings work, it was time to stick some fresh fuel in Ropey and turn the key proper. It was a bit of a let down, as the engine was turning over merrily, but wouldn't catch.
There was no spark.
Undeterred I printed off the 4.0 XJ40 diagnostics chart, as thats the ignition set up I'm using. Working through with the multimeter proved that coil, module and power were all as they should be. Testing while cranking showed that there was no pull down to ground on the module, and further up no signal from the ECU.... hence no spark.
I turned the ignition on and undid the securing bolt on the crank sensor. Wiping it over the edge of the trigger wheel and all of a sudden there was a 'sneeze' from the intake. A few minutes work saw the sensor reset in its mount to a more accurate air gap over the trigger wheel. A sneeze in the intake made me suspect the firing order was 180 out, so on a gut feeling I changed that round too. Stuck the key in and turned it again.
It lives!! A bit lumpy, and air leaks causing chaos, but it lives!!
I still want to replace/substitute some parts that I'm not happy with but the next step is to finish off cooling and alternator circuits so I can run it long enough to get it warmed up and check which gauges work on the sensors fitted.
Notes from this last few days -
The diagnostic charts provided by Jaguar for AJ6 engines are spot on. Follow them to the letter and you can't go wrong.
On an XJ40/X300 the crank sensor can be checked for activity by watching the rev counter to see if it moves during cranking. As I'm still using the original coil wiring, this applies to my conversion too.
Rich
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"You're about as likely to come across a fully functioning old Jag, as you are a taxicab that smells agreeable." - James May
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bigrod
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,654
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Megalike!!!
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If I have to explain, you won't understand.
Maximum signature image height = 80 pixels
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jomfun
Part of things
Posts: 214
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Jun 30, 2012 22:22:37 GMT
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wow. would love to see this in the metal. are you going to the gathering?
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I'm probably not going to make it to the gathering this year, as there's still a load to do on the car, and a big chunk of my free time this month is getting eaten up by attending the Le Mans Classic.
Once its done though, I'll be driving the old beast everywhere!!
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"You're about as likely to come across a fully functioning old Jag, as you are a taxicab that smells agreeable." - James May
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Flushed with success of hearing the old beast run, I did the sensible thing and pulled all the wiring out again!
I have the original coils and cam sensor installed now, and the butchered dizzy and 4.0 XJ40 ECU are back on the shelf awaiting a new home later in the year. They might see service in my S3 at some point, as that's still wheezing a bit.
I'm now tweaking a few items on the S1; killing a few air leaks I found and I'm going to try the original XJR6 ecu along with some security elements from an X300 I broke up.
Target time - running again within the next 7 days.
The megasquirt - while not going to plan - hasn't been discarded as the potential is just too great, especially for when I need to evolve 'Ropey' a bit further in the future. I just have a sheet full of schematics and am working through it slowly to get it to work. My elusive hunt for VR signal wasn't helped by the version of stimulator I have not providing the correct one for my ECU to read during testing...
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"You're about as likely to come across a fully functioning old Jag, as you are a taxicab that smells agreeable." - James May
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Mar 19, 2013 13:36:43 GMT
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Well try as I might I just can't get the damned thing to run right. I tried megasquirt but couldn't get my head around it, and the trigger setup didn't like having a missing tooth where the Jaguar crank pulley has it. I tried an original ECU but it doesn't want to play without the rest of a car along with it.
In short, I'm curse word off, fed up and convinced the XJR6 is a good engine but not as a donor. The engine is coming out, and a V12 is going in, while I have a good rethink over this.
I'm of no doubt that someone who knows their way around electronics could sort it out, but that someone isn't me, and if I can't fix it it doesn't go to someone else to play with - I need to be able to fix my own toys.
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"You're about as likely to come across a fully functioning old Jag, as you are a taxicab that smells agreeable." - James May
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Clement
Europe
ambitious but rubbish
Posts: 2,095
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Mar 19, 2013 13:50:32 GMT
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Too bad about the XJR6 engine, but those V12 plans sound quite interesting (because, well, v12)!!
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Mar 19, 2013 17:00:26 GMT
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Blimey that sounds a mega shame, sounds like you have been defeated within yards of the finish line.
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1974 Lancia Beta Saloon
1975 Mazda 929 Coupé
1986 Mazda 929 Wagon
1979 Mazda 929 Hardtop
1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica
1977 Toyota Carina TA14
1989 Subaru 1800 Wagon
1982 Hyundai Pony 1200TL 2-dr
1985 Hyundai Pony 1200 GL
1986 Maserati 425 Biturbo
1992 Rover 214 SEi 5-dr
2000 Rover 45 V6 Club
1994 Peugeot 205 'Junior' Diesel
1988 Volvo 760 Turbodiesel Saloon
1992 Talbot Express Autosleeper Rambler
2003 Renault Laguna SPEARS OR REAPERS
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Mar 19, 2013 18:17:08 GMT
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There'll be another go at it in the future... but I've just got so depressed by the engine management defeating me that I've got to revive the car to get my spirit back and save it from dissolving.
The V12 is a way out for now as I know my way around that engine well - but it is in no way the end of the story.
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"You're about as likely to come across a fully functioning old Jag, as you are a taxicab that smells agreeable." - James May
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Mar 19, 2013 18:23:42 GMT
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That´s a shame Rich especially after all your hard work and the 12 is definately not a bad second choice  regards to the family mate, hope everyone is doing well?  |
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Mar 19, 2013 18:39:47 GMT
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Hi Dave, Passed your regards on, parents are all good and say "Hello!" Regarding my S1 - it is a bit of a shame, but the electrical side needs a serious rethink, and the car is just deteriorating too rapidly while its outdoors and not being run. The V12 is only temporary, and the great plug and play nature of the mechanical components mean that a new engine will slot in where the AJ16S went with very little work - the car could be back to standard with no evidence the supercharged engine has ever been there (not that it will ever happen). I'm keeping the Getrag 5 speed behind the V12, so that should be fun for the moment. Found some inspiration to keep heading towards -   Turns out Beacham did an XJ6; but even they had to use most of the rest of the XJR to get it all to work. I think attempt 2 may involve a complete donor car rather than just the engine. Time for a 12 cylinder legend though first. |
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"You're about as likely to come across a fully functioning old Jag, as you are a taxicab that smells agreeable." - James May
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eurogranada
Europe
To tinker or not to tinker, that is the question...
Posts: 2,529
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Mar 20, 2013 15:50:37 GMT
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Epic story, epic car... Get it back on the road looking as it deserves and try again later! And I agree, probably your best bett is a full donor car to work with...
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Mar 23, 2013 18:02:34 GMT
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 Click picture for more |
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Apr 27, 2013 23:36:47 GMT
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Hey Rich, where are you with this car now? Very keen to see you back on track with the AJ16S engine, but I know how these things get sometimes.
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janm
Part of things
Posts: 42
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May 26, 2013 16:42:48 GMT
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Hello Richw82
My first post here. Have been following this thread for quite a long time now and it definitely have been very inspiring when working on my own similar project , a 1970 XJ6 s1 2.8, now running very nicely with a 4.0 AJ6, Getrag 290 and a Megasquirt MS2 ECU.
I´m in no way an expert in electronics but was lucky enough to get the Megasquirt working quite well almost from start. Must say though that it´s been quite confusing with all the different codes, firmwares and tuning programs. Took indeed some time to sort out the finetuning - suppose I could give some new contributions to the list of ”most common Megasquirt mistakes” .
Ric; If you decide to continue on the Megasquirt road I´ll be glad if I could be to any assistance . You can PM me if you want to have a look at my msq file or any other detailed specs.
JanM
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May 28, 2013 14:02:27 GMT
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Hi Jan, I'm very interested in what you've been doing, and it sounds like you might have got the answers to the problems I was having with getting the AJ16S to run Megasquirt! I'll PM you once I've dug out some detail of what I was doing (as I got rid of all my megasquirt kit after my aborted attempt). In the meantime, any chance of seeing some photo's of your car and the install? I'm interested in how you've got the fuel line and return plumbed in with the twin tank setup. With regards to 'Ropey', I couldn't bring myself to take out all the hard work I'd done, so instead of removing everything the AJ16S got substituted for a 3.6 AJ6 that was lying around doing nothing. I got soaking wet with rain putting it in, but using a standard XJS ECU should have it growling before too long so it was worth it..   The AJ16S is waiting for me to weld up a test stand to get it running on, before it goes back in. The AJ6 and AJ16 share all the same mounting points, so engine changes are a doddle! |
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Last Edit: May 28, 2013 14:03:39 GMT by richw82
"You're about as likely to come across a fully functioning old Jag, as you are a taxicab that smells agreeable." - James May
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blot
Part of things
Posts: 17
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May 28, 2013 19:34:47 GMT
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This is an excellent thread, Must of been so disheartening to have to pull the plug on the XJR conversion, Great youve stuck an AJ6 in, That should rekindle your enthusiasm to get the XJR lump in and working? I will be following this thread for inspiration! Looks a nice, Solid S1 aswell, I love em in white.
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Last Edit: May 28, 2013 19:35:49 GMT by blot
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May 28, 2013 21:38:03 GMT
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Hi Blot, glad you like the thread. I was a bit depressed when I pulled the XJR engine out again and listed the lot on ebay. I then thought twice about it and pulled it off ebay and stuck it away. I will have it working eventually its just how that is a bit hazy!
I'm lucky in that mine is not too rusty, though the rear valance has bit the dust and there's some suspect patches in the drivers door, but its all stuff i've got in hand. I've just been looking at your thread, your car is a good one too by the look of it.
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"You're about as likely to come across a fully functioning old Jag, as you are a taxicab that smells agreeable." - James May
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blot
Part of things
Posts: 17
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May 28, 2013 21:58:47 GMT
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Yes its pretty solid for a S1! Mine needs a rear valence aswell which ive just got, Theres plod in the front wings around the headlamps (Just got a pair of decent 2nd hand wings) and on the rear doglegs when it had sills, Structurally its not too bad, It needs sill ends. A bit of corrosion where the radius arm sections join the inner sills. Though the radius arm mounts are good, All the inner wings, Chassis legs, Floors etc are solid, Even the front x member is original though a hole on the offside easily patchable. With the sill ends off I can see the inners have beed repaired at the rear and the O/S/F inner is perforated right at the front so I think the first job is to cut the outers off and start sorting it out. Over the moon to have an S1 again!
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Last Edit: May 28, 2013 22:04:24 GMT by blot
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janm
Part of things
Posts: 42
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May 29, 2013 22:26:44 GMT
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Hi Ric
About the fuel plumbing; It has gone a while since I made that twin tank install but I remember it was quite awkward, still a little hesitant if it was worth the effort compared by only using one of the tanks.
First I swapped out both the original tanks for somewhat newer ones, already fitted with return line connections and the bigger outlet. You need to have two different return valves, one that opens and one that closes when energized. You also need one switch-over valve that directs the fuel flow from either left or right tank and into the pump. The fuel lines I use are 8mm cu tubing, from the tanks to the pump 12mm. Should probably be little wider – steel tubing preferably - but have not noticed any fuel starving yet.
The electrical bit is quite easy, you can simply use one of the wires from the dashboard switch orginally connected to one of the old SU pumps. In my case I used the white/purple. When energized – switched to ”left tank” - the current goes to the three fuel valves - left return valve opens, right return valve closes and the change-over inlet valve change direction and open the left tank inlet. When the dash switch is directed against ”right” – connector empty and no current – all the valves will automaticly switch into the reverse position.
However - and it´s important to say – I´m writing this mostly from memory, never made any real documented wiring diagram. I had a look at the installation earlier today but most of the wires are quite well hidden in black insulation tape. I also have the nasty habit, when short of supply, splicing together different coloured wires that´s laying around, might be blue in one end, green in the middle and turn out purple in the final end. IOW you must absolutely check that the valves opens and closes in the correct way or you´ll end up leaving a distinct trace of fuel behind the car, fuel pump sucking from one tank and the return overfilling the other.
I took some mobilephone pictures of the car, eventually I manage to add them with this post or in some message. Right now, looking at a pic of that weird fuel plumbing I come to think that if I ever had to do this over again I certainly would use only one tank, arrange for a pump inside and use the other as a temporary fuel spare, maybe have one of those ancient SU-pumps to tick-tack fuel over when needed.
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