timasorus
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 439
Club RR Member Number: 90
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car safetytimasorus
@timasorus
Club Retro Rides Member 90
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now this may just be me but i always feel more comfortable going fast in old cars e.g. my mates Peugeot 205 1.6 gti where as if i get in my mates new corsa venom thats lowered with uprated brakes and tyres i feel worried as hell. does anyone else get this? ??
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banditos ahoy!
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Its probably just a case of not driving the car regularly, so your not sure of how hard you can push it, whereas the 205 is driven by you on a regular basis, so you know its limitations
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1993 Fiat Panda Selecta 2003 Vauxhall Combo 1.7DI van 2006 Mercedes Kompressor Evolution-S AMG SportCoupé
"You think you hate it now, wait til you drive it"
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car safetyretrowagen1234
@GUEST
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i don't feel comfortable fast in new cars either. .. ive had numerous polos and things and been in other old ratly cars... but i feel more comfortable in those... feeling the bumps thru the seat and steering... feeling the brakes , being able to feel it aquaplaning.. whereas my mates seat was scary as hell as its soo quiet and smooth you don't know when its letting go and where its limit is....
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Aug 11, 2009 10:09:41 GMT
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I agree with retrowagen - especially power steered cars, you just don't have the same 'feel' that you do with older ones.
And as for ABS and ESP and all that, I like to think I should be 'allowed' by the car to lock my wheels if I want to...
;D
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"A Pierburg carb? It would be more economical to replace it with a funnel..."
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Aug 11, 2009 10:47:15 GMT
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i feel safer going fast in a new car if someone else is driving as i know its helping the driver not to crash and if he does still manage to get it wrong it will help keep me alive.
Old cars generally need lots of mods to keep up with new cars round corners despite what it feels like from inside.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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Aug 11, 2009 11:14:54 GMT
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Actually driving new cars for me, I feel less connected, so it feels less safe riding high with little feedback. Also with new cars being so isolated from the outside they make some drivers feel like they are too safe. I'm at a halfway house now in my Mid skool Xantia, it feels tight and fun to handle but also newish, tis a special case, a different beast to my lowered Fiesta, like em both. I am aware that some old cars though are much unsafer that new uns when it comes to getting squished. Crash vids demonstrate this.
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it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts
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Aug 11, 2009 11:26:53 GMT
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I drove a brand new corsa 1.2 a few months ago, and it terrified me - Dangerously sluggish, and the amount of body roll (and understeer) was insane. No feedback from the road or engine through feel or sound, it was like being in a computer game with no sound. Massive blind spots due to 3 foot wide A pillars and really high beltline. I drive a Lupo day to day (which is far from fast) but atleast in the Lupo I know I'm actually driving!
The corsa was that bad, you couldn't even tell you were understeering. Clearly designed for people who have no idea about how a car handles, so feedback would be pointless, they just want it to be easy to park.
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stinkwheel
Posted a lot
Doctor Of Gonzo Journalism - One of gods own proptypes, never even considered for mass production.
Posts: 2,280
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Aug 11, 2009 11:30:58 GMT
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I was lumbered with a 99 pug 106 for a while, it was horrid, skitish, didnt feel planted at all, the brakes were rubbish and tbh i hated it. All of my old cars have felt better planted on the road (including 2CV's)
I'm not surprised that a few years back all the 106/saxo boys were lobbign them in hedges cos' without some driving experience they will not handle or stay on the road very well (in my opinion)
and as for the above comment from someone about the modern seat, well my mate had a leon cupra thing on a 52 plate, it was fast but you had NO idea what it was actually doing, couldnt feel a thing feedback wise, i expect when it let go it would be sudden and nasty.
That said virtually no retro will match modern cars handling/braking etc without serious mods.
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1973 Citroen Dyane 6 1980 Citroen Acadiane 1992 Citroen AX 1990 Citroen BX 1997 Citroen XM 1993 Citroen BX 1997 Citroen Xantia 1977 Citroen Ami 8 1996 Ford Escort 1989 Citroen BX 1997 Suzuki RF900 1988 Yamaha TDR250 1979 Honda CB400. 'I need less vehicles'
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car safetyBenzBoy
@benzboy
Club Retro Rides Member 7
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Aug 11, 2009 11:37:51 GMT
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I'd rather crash in a modern car than any retro - even my big ol' Merc. I ain't kidding myself that a 40 year old design is safer than a new one. Sure it'll bend up to a crumpled mess but that's to stop me being bent up in a crumpled mess. As for feeling safe - I don't often feel safe travelling at high speed as a passenger, regardless of who is driving or what we're in. That's not through doubt of the driver or car's capabilities, that's just due to the fact that at 100+ if something big happens there's a high chance I won't be in one piece afterwards.
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Last Edit: Aug 11, 2009 11:40:06 GMT by BenzBoy
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stinkwheel
Posted a lot
Doctor Of Gonzo Journalism - One of gods own proptypes, never even considered for mass production.
Posts: 2,280
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Aug 11, 2009 11:44:16 GMT
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I have only ever crashed retro cars (although I do try not to make a habbit of it) the two biggest were both in citroen CX's. I ran into a parked nissan when a lady had stopped on a blind bend on a marked no stopping road to answer her mobile phone. The second I was hit up the rear by a un-insured non uk citizen in a fiesta whilst I was stationary waiting at a roundabout. Both cars remained driveable and solid despite both being approx 50/55 mph impacts. Both written off but both driveable So old cars arent as bad as you think if not rotten and horrid. The problem in my opinion is that modern cars rely too much on airbags ABS etc instead of good honest strength of design
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Last Edit: Aug 11, 2009 11:45:03 GMT by stinkwheel
1973 Citroen Dyane 6 1980 Citroen Acadiane 1992 Citroen AX 1990 Citroen BX 1997 Citroen XM 1993 Citroen BX 1997 Citroen Xantia 1977 Citroen Ami 8 1996 Ford Escort 1989 Citroen BX 1997 Suzuki RF900 1988 Yamaha TDR250 1979 Honda CB400. 'I need less vehicles'
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MWF
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,945
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Aug 11, 2009 11:49:12 GMT
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TBH most cars I'm new to feel disconnected and hard to judge feedback. It's always taken me a bit of time to settle into a car, be it a 1960's Spitfire or a new Clio.
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Aug 11, 2009 12:00:18 GMT
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I drove a Chevrolet-kia concoction the other day. It was pretty recent, and a 1.4, so you'd expect it to be pretty nippy. It was unbelievably sedate with less pulling power than my Escort, built 20 years previously! I had two or three near misses on just a short journey, because even small lorries could 'hide' behind the windscreen pillar. It cornered pretty well, but the steering was so limp, there was no feedback at all. And the engine idled really quietly, when I pulled up at junctions I kept thinking it had stalled.
I know it was packed full of safety equipment to stop me getting killed, but I feel I'd be less likely to have an accident in any of my own cars.
And an interesting thought - after being involved in a rather bad motorway crash at high speed - would you rather be dead, in the front seat of a Vauxhall Victor - or be cut out of your new Vectra and face the rest of your life with no legs, or even brain damage?
I know what I'd choose. Don't lynch me, it was just a thought!
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"A Pierburg carb? It would be more economical to replace it with a funnel..."
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Aug 11, 2009 12:03:43 GMT
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Depends on the car and if I'm the passenger who's driving. I've driven a pug 406 coupe which felt horrible, sluggish and completely disconnected. At the same time I've been passenger in a nissan sunny pulsar replica and a 500+ bhp nissan s14a in full drift spec and felt safe as ever. I always tend to feel pretty relaxed in older stuff though.
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Aug 11, 2009 12:18:21 GMT
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well my mate had a leon cupra thing on a 52 plate, it was fast but you had NO idea what it was actually doing, couldnt feel a thing feedback wise, I expect when it let go it would be sudden and nasty. Got to say that my dads Ford Focus is the same. The car feels exactly the same at any speed, and you get no idea of what you are doing. Plus doing 30mph feel more like 15mph, and its soo boring to drive. You even think of crashing it just to make the journey a bit more interesting ;D
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1993 Fiat Panda Selecta 2003 Vauxhall Combo 1.7DI van 2006 Mercedes Kompressor Evolution-S AMG SportCoupé
"You think you hate it now, wait til you drive it"
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MrBen
Part of things
Posts: 89
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Aug 11, 2009 12:21:48 GMT
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I think it really depends what you are used to. I currently don't have anything 'retro' and drive a modern BMW daily, and for general day to day use I sure feel far safer in the BM than in anything older.
Sure, it's not as fun to chuck about at lower speeds as it has so much mechanical grip, not to mention electronic systems preventing it from sliding about, but for everyday driving, I'd rather have those safe guards in place.
When it comes to driving for fun, it's a different matter, and nothing will beat a simple older car such as a Mini when it comes to chucking it down a bendy lane, because it's the lack of outright grip and the ability to get the car sliding about etc that makes it fun, but to me it'll never feel as safe as a good modern!
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Toy: 2001 Porsche Boxster S - almost retro! Daily: Modern BMW 435i - less exciting but quick!
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Aug 11, 2009 12:29:14 GMT
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Well, after driving it hard for two years I feel safe getting sideways in a swing-axle beetle, so I suppose you can get used to anything! ;D
I think that the feedback and visibility of old cars is a lot better. Most importantly, when reversing my dad's Commodore, I'm occasionally forced to rely on the mirrors and parking sensors because the C pillars are enormous and the rear waistline of the car is so high. I'm much more comfortable reversing my beetle, which seems to somehow offer better rear vision despite a much smaller (but lower down) back window. Maybe I just have more confidence in knowing where the corners of the beetle are.
Obviously though, if you do actually stuff it up and have a crash, the more modern the car the better. However, I reason to myself that I'm not against the idea of riding a motorcycle in the near future, and the crash protection of even a beetle is much better than any motorcycle, so I just drive what I want to and take the risk.
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stinkwheel
Posted a lot
Doctor Of Gonzo Journalism - One of gods own proptypes, never even considered for mass production.
Posts: 2,280
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Aug 11, 2009 12:33:17 GMT
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ahh interesting point above about motorcycles..............ive actually ridden bikes longer than ive driven cars, so feeling of safety is maybe different to me compared to someone who has never ridden a bike, i dunno, maybe I'm talking out my behind.
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1973 Citroen Dyane 6 1980 Citroen Acadiane 1992 Citroen AX 1990 Citroen BX 1997 Citroen XM 1993 Citroen BX 1997 Citroen Xantia 1977 Citroen Ami 8 1996 Ford Escort 1989 Citroen BX 1997 Suzuki RF900 1988 Yamaha TDR250 1979 Honda CB400. 'I need less vehicles'
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Aug 11, 2009 12:50:56 GMT
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I used to feel realy safe caining my bike, I also had bikes before cars. when I stopped using my bike every day I lost a bit of confidence and chilled out!
In cars the mini was great as it felt faster than it was which made it seem less safe. My daily is a Mk3 mondy turbo derver and its not slow, but certainly doesnt feel quick but does feel safe. you can feel a bit of feedback but curtainly feels a lot number than my old mini or 190.
190 was the only rwd car i've had and I had the back end out in the wet but was very controllable, cant really compare that to anything modern.
I hate being a passenger in anything though, old, new, fast, slow, bikes whatever, I hate not being in controll!
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Last Edit: Aug 11, 2009 12:51:45 GMT by Gas Works
wanted, 25th hour. Required daily, cash waiting
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Aug 11, 2009 13:17:22 GMT
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feel safe vs be safe...
Hmmm...
Anyway, it depends ona lot of things.
Oddly I find it far easier to be travelling WAY to fast in the wifey PT Cruiser Diesel than in my Lexus. Both are modern, both very different, and you'd think the Lexus would be the "oops that was 3 figures" car but its not.
I find most modern cars you can wind up to very illegal speeds and sit there without a care in the world as you don't even feel like you are driving it fast. I took a pool Corsa on a totally fictitious journey and never dropped below 90 all the way. No bother, no ruffled feathers. I certainly never did exactly the same with a fleet Astra to get to Hampshire in 3 hours. You don't even have to turn the radio up very loud.
I wouldn't want to do the same thing in something retro. Not without massively upgraded brakes, ABS, upgraded or at least overhauled suspension, decent tyres, etc.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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stinkwheel
Posted a lot
Doctor Of Gonzo Journalism - One of gods own proptypes, never even considered for mass production.
Posts: 2,280
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Aug 11, 2009 13:39:19 GMT
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i think alistairs post makes me a bad bad person, cos it just does, oooops.
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1973 Citroen Dyane 6 1980 Citroen Acadiane 1992 Citroen AX 1990 Citroen BX 1997 Citroen XM 1993 Citroen BX 1997 Citroen Xantia 1977 Citroen Ami 8 1996 Ford Escort 1989 Citroen BX 1997 Suzuki RF900 1988 Yamaha TDR250 1979 Honda CB400. 'I need less vehicles'
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