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I think I have finally licked the rough-running problems the GTA had. I decided to recap the past few years, now that it has gone from non-running heap by the side of the street, to heap that runs. It now starts at the twist of the key, settles cold to a fast idle which gradually slows itself down, then settles as the Oxygen sensor begins to read (about 8-10 seconds) to a very smooth 1100RPM which settles further to 900 once warm. The car responds well to throttle, even cold. It doesn't buck, jerk, stall, cut out, pop, bang or rev like mad. The exhaust (no catalytic... that's coming) no longer smells off-mix. It just now smells like correctly burning gasoline. How did I manage this feat, I hear you cry. It took this much- items listed below: [New] Distributor cap [New] Rotor arm [New] Spark plugs [New] Spark plug wires [New] Knock/Detonation sensor [New] MAP sensor [New] Coolant temperature sensor [New] Crank position sensor [New] Fuel pump [New] Oxygen sensor [Rebuilt] Idle control motor [Rebuilt] ECU idle control circuit [Rebuilt] Fuel pressure regulator [Rebuilt] Engine- including as follows o Replacement cylinder head o Replacement no.1 piston o New water pump o New gaskets all round o New main bearings o New big end bearings o New piston rings o New oil seals o New thrust washers o New timing belt o New belt idler and tensioner [New] Motor mounts [New] Air filter [New] Oil filter, oil [New] Coolant hoses [New] Vacuum lines The things that made the most difference to the running of the engine (apart from the fact I had to rebuild it) was the MAP sensor, oxygen sensor and coolant temperature sensor- those were all kinda working but out of limits. The MAP sensor caused the car to buck under light throttle pedal. The coolant temperature sensor screwed the base map for the fuel. The oxygen sensor was slow to switch so the problem with the CTS was really apparent, in this case causing the engine to cycle lean/rich/lean/rich. The air filter helped throttle response. The crank position sensor helped with a high-rpm misfire. Put that all together and it resulted in a rough running, stalling pig of a car. I'm now to the point where I'm going to make sure it's capable of running properly, and then get a catalytic converter to finish it off. No point in having a badly running engine ruin a brand new cat. Why bother, you ask. Why not? It was specced to have one from the factory. Oddly, the closer I get to factory spec with this, the better it runs.... odd that  --Phil |
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rld14
Part of things
Posts: 351
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So really, just a few bits then?
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88 BMW E28 M5
62 Vauxhall Velox
60 Vauxhall Velox
60 Lincoln Premiere Coupe
60 Lincoln Continental Mark V Convertible
54 Ford Customline Fordor
32 Ford Roadster
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stefan
Posted a lot
If it isn't broken fix it till it is
Posts: 1,598
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Glad you have got it running right with just a few new parts, would have been bad news if you had needed loads of bits
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POWER IS EVERYTHING WITHOUT CONTROL
1985 Honda jazz
1997 Saab 93 convertible
2010 transit 280
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Mar 23, 2011 23:05:46 GMT
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Glad you have got it running right with just a few new parts, would have been bad news if you had needed loads of bits That is quite a lot of bits. the wife reminds me that I said this was going to be a cheap, quick-to-get-on-the-road project. I took it apart, saw everyone else's bodges and then decided to heck with that, it's being done properly. Total spend so far about $1200. --Phil |
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Mar 23, 2011 23:17:40 GMT
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Had a spare 30 minutes after coming home from work so I decided as it was light and not too hot to begin probing the electrics for the interior fan. No juice to the fan resistor. That'll be why the fan wasn't working then. Work further back in the circuit, got to the fusebox.  Probe the 25A (marked 1, green) fuse marked "FAN/A-C HTR". No power. Went to ground when fan switched on. That side of it's good, at least. Probe the surroundings. Discover the other side goes to the relay (3, blue) which has a permanent live, and a purple feed to energise the relay... That was probed back to the accessory side of things. It is connected through the 15A radio/cig lighter fuse (2, purple) which had a particularly bad connection on the fuse. Cleaned the terminals up, stuck the fuse back in, switched on the ignition and CLIK, on comes the relay, and FWOOOOOM on comes the cabin fan. Result. Start the engine and select the aircon, and the dratted aircon even starts up.  It needs recharging as I got it to work for a bit then it cut out- bridged the low-pressure switch and I can see bubbles going past in the window (above). the pressure side of the compressor gets hot and the expansion valve gets noticeably cool to the touch, but it doesn't exactly get cold. Guess that needs to be charged then. Quite happy about that, bit of a result  Need to get the radiator fan switch in (the ECU controls the aircon determined upon how hot the engine is, if the throttle is wide open, how long the engine's been running, how cool the aircon circuit is etc) because it does at least CLAK the aircon compressor on and the fan comes on. Will be nice to have aircon. --Phil |
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Mar 23, 2011 23:27:51 GMT
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Oh, but it is an R-12 system.... This may be a problem  --Phil |
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rld14
Part of things
Posts: 351
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Mar 23, 2011 23:30:51 GMT
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Phil,
$1,200 to do all that? Seems awful cheap to me for all the work you did to it.
So what's the next step?
Bill
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88 BMW E28 M5
62 Vauxhall Velox
60 Vauxhall Velox
60 Lincoln Premiere Coupe
60 Lincoln Continental Mark V Convertible
54 Ford Customline Fordor
32 Ford Roadster
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Phil, $1,200 to do all that? Seems awful cheap to me for all the work you did to it. So what's the next step? Bill Actually, I haven't added the receipts, it might be closer to $1300 there's a total of $31 labor incurred with this, that was the cost of getting the machine shop to press in and out the wheel bearing. The rest has been done by me, so it's only parts costs. The next big steps are a new drive shaft for the front passenger side, tighten everything up, fit the new balljoints on the suspension, get steering rods and get the front end aligned; a headlight holder and then it's good to go. --Phil |
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rld14
Part of things
Posts: 351
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Is the air con on R134a or R12?
If it's R134a, first thing I would do is throw a can of R134a in it to see if that gets it running, remember, you'll NEVER get a totally clear sight glass on an R134a system so don't lose sleep over it.
See if that triggers the pressure switch.
Bill
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88 BMW E28 M5
62 Vauxhall Velox
60 Vauxhall Velox
60 Lincoln Premiere Coupe
60 Lincoln Continental Mark V Convertible
54 Ford Customline Fordor
32 Ford Roadster
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Ginge
Part of things
Posts: 65
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If its on R12 the best thing you could do is use RS24, this section of this site might be worth reading www.rscool.com/RS-24.htmlGinge |
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Mar 24, 2011 14:25:17 GMT
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If its on R12 the best thing you could do is use RS24, this section of this site might be worth reading www.rscool.com/RS-24.htmlGinge That's an idea; I'm going to get the system checked out locally- most of the parts are available still, including the receiver/drier, and the compressor was common to quite a lot of cars. It has only lost a bit, there's still coolant in there so I don't know if I can get it recharged with R12 by a licensed operator or if the system does need to be rebuilt for R134a. If that's the case, I can get it rebuilt for R134a and save the hassle later on. --Phil |
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rld14
Part of things
Posts: 351
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Mar 24, 2011 16:55:28 GMT
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Try the easy method first... (I am a putz for not reading where you said R12!)
Do what I did with my old 535i.
Buy R12 on eBay, you either have to e-mail them and say you have an EPA license or that it's for resale per eBay rules nudge nod wink wink.
Throw can of R12 in car with hose.
If AC blows cool, success.
If AC fails, you're out $30. THEN you go and do the thing the right way.
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88 BMW E28 M5
62 Vauxhall Velox
60 Vauxhall Velox
60 Lincoln Premiere Coupe
60 Lincoln Continental Mark V Convertible
54 Ford Customline Fordor
32 Ford Roadster
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Mar 28, 2011 16:51:29 GMT
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Not sure I fancy the EPA coming fine me over a can of freon lol
On a more positive note, someone kindly provided me with a bunch of vector files for most of the graphics on the car, all the livery that I'm planning on putting on.
There's a few places locally that cut sticky vinyl, but I need to find the cheapest that isn't going to be total poop.
--Phil
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rld14
Part of things
Posts: 351
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Mar 28, 2011 17:20:29 GMT
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Ahh, nobodys gonna say anything if you buy a can of R12 off of eBay
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88 BMW E28 M5
62 Vauxhall Velox
60 Vauxhall Velox
60 Lincoln Premiere Coupe
60 Lincoln Continental Mark V Convertible
54 Ford Customline Fordor
32 Ford Roadster
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Mar 28, 2011 20:50:44 GMT
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Ahh, nobodys gonna say anything if you buy a can of R12 off of eBay I'll tell them Bill sent me |
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Mar 28, 2011 23:50:04 GMT
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Hot today (35°C) and humid (foggy this morning despite being 24°C out) so I didn't do a whole lot other than set the radiator fan shroud to glue:  And also gave the car a wash.  (It's been naughty, the gearbox is leaking onto the concrete  )  Doesn't look a whole lot better really lol Needed it, at least. Killed a hornet that had made its way into the car- a good dousing with electrical contact cleaner just got it stoned for a few minutes, it then started to wake up, and at that point I managed to trap it and squash it. I hate bugs. --Phil |
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Last Edit: Mar 28, 2011 23:56:37 GMT by PhilA
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I took it apart, saw everyone else's bodges and then decided to heck with that, it's being done properly. --Phil This is exactly how I am with my Bertone. Good on you for undoing those bodges! Lovely work, btw. I've never seen one of these in the US. |
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rld14
Part of things
Posts: 351
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Mar 29, 2011 10:06:44 GMT
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Hmmm... Might I suggest headlamps?  |
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88 BMW E28 M5
62 Vauxhall Velox
60 Vauxhall Velox
60 Lincoln Premiere Coupe
60 Lincoln Continental Mark V Convertible
54 Ford Customline Fordor
32 Ford Roadster
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Mar 29, 2011 11:13:03 GMT
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This is exactly how I am with my Bertone. Good on you for undoing those bodges! Lovely work, btw. I've never seen one of these in the US. Thanks. For all the really poor reviews, it's a fun car so long as you compare it to other cars in its class- too often there are reviews based upon putting it up against 8-litre V8 monsters or mopeds for power and economy figures- which of course will make it look poor. It does have a lot of reason to be the butt of a lot of jokes, but it still handles well even by today's standards, is pretty comfortable despite its' size and 30mpg+ economical; bits have fallen off, other bits have been repaired badly- some hadn't been repaired at all. Too many people calling themselves mechanics really don't understand the vehicle, the problems it has, how to remedy them etc. Chrysler's lack of support for them the year after they were released only aided their demise. Hmmm... Might I suggest headlamps? Naw. Don't need 'em. One of my foglights works (incidentally the one that's smashed, go figure) and the turn signal bulbs still light up, so that'll do! Joking aside I took the front grille off because one headlamp was flopping around, and the grille is bent where the hood has been opened into it too many times. Just above the lights are two thick aluminium strips riveted in, presumably to retain the shape of the grille. They've been bent so they've wonderfully retained the bend, and I can't figure how to bend them straight without cracking the plastic... Still working on that one. So for now, no headlamps. You also have just made me look at the pictures and realise where the dents in the hood have come from, it's where the hood has pivoted round all the way (the check-strap is broken, literally torn, and it's a wire rope) and the top of the hood has hit against the front bumper. --Phil |
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Last Edit: Mar 29, 2011 11:15:32 GMT by PhilA
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Mar 29, 2011 23:30:26 GMT
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Was in a bit of a bad mood when I got home so I went outside and pulled the one remaining rivet off each of the headlight brow reinforcement strips, and set about bashing them flat with a hammer. Felt a bit better about myself and the world after that, so stuck them in a bit further over- the plastic had warped where the metal ran out, daft design really.   I think I'm just going to stick a rivet or a small nut and bolt through to clamp it all down, like thus:  Should hold it all a bit straighter. Brought a random bit of plastic trim inside that had broken (driver's side splash guard) and stuck it in the bathtub parts washer to clean it off before sticking it on the aircon vent to dry off.  Will try to straighten it out and glue it. There's a big gouge missing where it'd broken before and been dragging on the tire. Fun stuff. --Phil |
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