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Jan 17, 2009 21:59:01 GMT
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Renault Master/Vauxhall Movano 2.2 Turbo weasels. Injectors fail, confuses the ECU which overcompensates. Pumps too much diesel in and most of the time hydraulics it and bends the con rods! D'oh! Seen about 5 like this now! Vauxhall Astra F diesels (with the Vauxhall engine) oil pick up pipe is 5 mm above the bottom of the sump. slightest ding in it blocks the pick up and siezes the engine!
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Jan 17, 2009 22:55:01 GMT
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One thing that will kill cars off fairly quickly is the growing trend to 'digitise' all controls, ie fly-by-wire accelerators, digitally controlled lights and good old BMW's trick of getting the various control boxes to talk to each other, even oddball like the rear screen heater...... electronics don't last forever and when your ECU controlled indicator circuit goes pop, it will probably be cheaper to bin the car than repair it. AFAIK, the Rover 75/MG ZT uses a 'one-wire' control system that has everything digitally run from it. That'll be fun when they start going pop......
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Rover Metro - The TARDIS - brake problems.....Stored Rover 75 - Barge MGZTT Cdti 160+ - Winter Hack and Audi botherer... MGF - The Golden Shot...Stored Project Minion........ Can you see the theme?
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Scary modernsDeleted
@Deleted
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Jan 17, 2009 23:06:49 GMT
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mate at work has an 04 vectra diesel and hes just been quoted 800 quid cause his engine management lights come on.. turns out theres some swirl thingy in the inlet manifold so the manifold has to be changed. (apparently vaux changed the design in 2006) ill stick with my oldies... they might look like poo and go like poo (well the camper anyways) but I know a pair of pliers and a test lamp cures most ills
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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Jan 17, 2009 23:08:48 GMT
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Being a frag runner (or traveller if you prefer) i scrap some real nice new motors like the 4 year old mondeo that had a fried autobox, 10 months mot and 2 months tax , worth more back in aug as scrap than it was 2nd hand or the 5 year old saxo diesel, fried engine due to ecu/wiring probs, in the frag ;D Only last month i passed on a real mint, low milage 1 owner, 01 mondeo GhiaX, cos a head bolt had snapped, MOT'd and taxed £50 to me £100 to a banger racer All the above where fragged/raced for one reason and one reason only, garage repair costs, gone are the days of the self servicing and fault fixing i mean christ just to find a fault on a 10 year old car you need a laptop and hundred of pounds of diagnotsic equipment and a 13 year old to show you how to use it Last month i recoverd a 54 renault to an old boy mech i know, all it was was low on auto gearbox fluid but as there's no dip stick you have to take it to the dealers and get it pressure tested and filled/re-filled according to the pressure reading. what happened to the good old test bulb
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R.I.P photobucket
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chrisw
Part of things
Posts: 171
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One thing that will kill cars off fairly quickly is the growing trend to 'digitise' all controls, ie fly-by-wire accelerators, digitally controlled lights and good old BMW's trick of getting the various control boxes to talk to each other, even oddball like the rear screen heater...... electronics don't last forever and when your ECU controlled indicator circuit goes pop, it will probably be cheaper to bin the car than repair it. AFAIK, the Rover 75/MG ZT uses a 'one-wire' control system that has everything digitally run from it. That'll be fun when they start going pop...... Now, you see, none of that scares me in the slightest. I just see it as a shift in the way you have to think. Instead of having a few hundred pounds worth of welding equipment and spanners, I'll have a different arsenal of tools, oscilloscopes, logic analysers etc.. I find the fear of 'the little black box' unfounded. I am in the process of 'digitising' the Mini, eventually it'll all be using a CANbus rather than my bodged together UART network. To me at least, this kind of 'tinkering' is much more preferable than playing with carbs and points. That said, the price of consumables on newer cars does scare me. That is the main reason I chose to buy a newish bike rather than a newish car when I needed something to soak up my commuting miles.
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murran
Part of things
Posts: 610
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yes moderns are rubbish I work on them and they are pants and why have diesel pumps got such a high rate of failiure these days and its been said befure dual mass flywheels why can you get a solid replacement for a transit but the mondeo with the same engine you cant. and allso long life servicing I don't care how exspensive the oil is 20-30k on the same oil I don't think so ive done several oil pump changes on vag models with wrecked pumps due to blocked strainers give me old cars anyday of the week you are so right! do NOT buy a vag car if its been on long life service. its such bullsh1t!!! SHOULD an 02 plate 1.8t a4q..... 100,000 miles need a new oil pump + strainer and full set of new shells...... i don't think so. SHOULD an 2001 a6 2.5 v6 tdi with 120,000 miles on it have 4 fooked cams (@ 185 quid each) and snapped 4 of those p1ssy tiny things they use called "rockers" that operate the vales because theyve worn so badly. SHOULD the camshaft on a 2001 150bhp tdi mk4 golf have hammered through one of its hydraulic tappets (knocking and missfiring), nearly 3 of its tappets in 120,000? this is just the last three months of the cars ive fixed because of one thing....... the long life oil they use are so full of detergants, they forgot about 1 thing.......... lubrication! theres a 1.9 tdi '99 a6 that comes in to our place for the last 8 years. comes in every 5000 miles for a service, proper oil in it, 240,000 miles on it. all ive ever done is cambelts and services, says alot doesnt it volkswagen!!!!!!! windscreen wiper linkages seizing up on later a4s/mk4 golfs?? mk1,2s and 3s.... audi 80s 90s 100s who ever heard of that??? oh and the audi a2............. if i have to butcher another door open because the central ecu for the central locking refuses to acknowledge that theres another door that also needs unlocking with the other doors I'm guna hang myself........ ffs the whole car rocks for side to side with the windscreen wiper on full speed! can you imagine the amount of thought thats gone into the production/design of the rest of the car? ?? duel mass flywheels don't even get me started on that topic!!!! i changed just today shaking the whole car to bits on an 03 plate tdi 130 a3 on 60,000 miles, dealer wouldnt even give them good will on the warrenty said it was wear and tear and so not covered. clutch on it was bearly touched. and I'm fooking sick of chasing bullsh1t egr, auxiluary air pump, air mass, autobox can line, intermittent air bag, and other curse word faults. common rail diesel injector faults with them going out of syc. unable to service the injectors and them being £200 each new and having to code them in! is another 1........ all systems/ideas a car doesnt need!!!!!!!!!!!! verspurng durtch teknic.......... roughly translated.......... BULLSH1T!! rant about cars i work on every day over. ;D
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murran
Part of things
Posts: 610
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oh and 4 months ago........ should an old shaped 04 plate audi tt convetable with 26,000 miles on it have dropped an inlet valve because the're pissy sodium filled sh1t?
no!
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Scary modernsrustingdeathtrap
@GUEST
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Whats the deal with mondeo flywheels then? Surley they cant cause £3000 worth of damage when they let go?
Most morderns are scary when they're modern, as they get old they'll become less scary or they'll get replaced with more scary stuff.
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Whats the deal with mondeo flywheels then? Surley they cant cause £3000 worth of damage when they let go? Most morderns are scary when they're modern, as they get old they'll become less scary or they'll get replaced with more scary stuff. Not entirely sure, but when they let go I think they take pretty much everything with it ouch.
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Scary modernsrustingdeathtrap
@GUEST
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Whats the deal with mondeo flywheels then? Surley they cant cause £3000 worth of damage when they let go? Most morderns are scary when they're modern, as they get old they'll become less scary or they'll get replaced with more scary stuff. Not entirely sure, but when they let go I think they take pretty much everything with it ouch. I know they can sound pretty terminal but i've never seen one damage anything other than crankshaft sensor and maybe a starter. I've only had experience of them on commercials though.
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Reading this thread scares the curse word out of me.
My current daily is the newest car i've ever owned, a W-reg BMW 530D Auto. Decided to service it today, everything was fairly straightforward, apart from the price of the bloody engine oil!! It takes 0w30 and the cheapest i could find lcoally was at GSF, at about £35 for 4 litres. Of course i need 7 litres so had to buy another can, so it ended up being £70 for the oil changes, and thats without the price of the filter!!
If it wasn't for the general state of car prices i reckon i'd be selling this car while it still works. I'm dreading anything going seriously wrong with it, especially when i'm still paying the loan i took to buy it!!
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I remember reading a letter in 'Classic And Sportscar' from about 1984 from a chap with a Morris Minor who'd gone to the motorshow and come back wondering what would happen in 20 years time because of the newfangled electronic ignition and turbos ect fitted to modern cars... magazine's reply was that 'they probably said the same about overhead valves and independant front suspension when the Minor came out...' I bet the owners of MK3 Cortinas that needed new camshafts at 6 months old due to blocked oil spraybars cursed 'modern' cars... ;D Thing is, if these faults are showing up now, and leading to cars beeing scapped, in 15 years time only the reliable ones will still be around, so whats the problem?
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... the only injury I sustained was a bumped head when I let the seatbelt of without realizing the car was upside down and that's not really the car's fault.
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Jan 18, 2009 10:34:52 GMT
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Thing is, if these faults are showing up now, and leading to cars beeing scapped, in 15 years time only the reliable ones will still be around, so whats the problem? Like survival of the fitest! Lewis
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ezzysi
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,189
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Jan 18, 2009 11:40:59 GMT
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I remember reading a letter in 'Classic And Sportscar' from about 1984 from a chap with a Morris Minor who'd gone to the motorshow and come back wondering what would happen in 20 years time because of the newfangled electronic ignition and turbos ect fitted to modern cars... magazine's reply was that 'they probably said the same about overhead valves and independant front suspension when the Minor came out...' I bet the owners of MK3 Cortinas that needed new camshafts at 6 months old due to blocked oil spraybars cursed 'modern' cars... ;D Thing is, if these faults are showing up now, and leading to cars beeing scapped, in 15 years time only the reliable ones will still be around, so whats the problem? A fair point BUT, scrapped cams and blocked spray bars are mechanical things that anyone with some mechanical knowhow can physically see/diagnose/mend, electrical gremlins in electronic control units that cost umpteen hundred pounds are a different matter. Its taking the ability to fix cars by the local mechanic and diy tinkerer away and means most things are becoming a Dealer only fix............. this worrys me! My volvo use's the one circuit for everything "canbus" system, which means even simple things like stereo's and the autodim rear view mirrors cannot be exchanged with second hand items from a scrapper cause they need programming into the system ffs!! Infact I'm sure I read that some of these minor parts can't even be reprogrammed by the dealers computer and you've got to buy a fresh new unit!! wheres the green/recycling thought in that!! in a few years they'll be tens of thousands of scrap cars with perfectly serviceable parts that are of no use to anyone because of the manufacterers greed..
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1991 Mk2 Golf Gti 8v 2005 Passat tdi (daily) 1971 Mk1 Escort 2004 Touran (her's)
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Jan 18, 2009 11:54:00 GMT
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I worked for Vauxhall when this whole canbus idea started (Vectra Cs use it). At the time we were all used to plugging the Tech2 computer in and reading the fault code. When canbus came out you had to do more as a fault in one system could show up as something else in another. We all thought it was terrible and wouldnt last. Nowadays you can buy a £20 scanner that reads or clears everything inc. canbus! Thing is, nowadays manufacturers are getting into fibre optics (Peugeot and BMW are 2 I know use it). That will stun everyone for a while then there will be a way round it. All part of being a mechanic, adapt and overcome!
I prefer old cars to moderns because 1. I work on moderns every day and it is nice to work on something simpler. 2. Moderns are expensive. Dealers charge a fortune for parts, common parts for old cars are ludicrously cheap. (Fiesta MK1 front discs £2 each, Mini alternator (Lucas ACR) £7) 3. No-one notices modern cars. No soul!
Then again, moderns are just retros before they rust! LOL!
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bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,942
Club RR Member Number: 71
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Scary modernsbstardchild
@bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member 71
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Jan 18, 2009 11:55:02 GMT
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All the above where fragged/raced for one reason and one reason only, garage repair costs, gone are the days of the self servicing and fault fixing I mean christ just to find a fault on a 10 year old car you need a laptop and hundred of pounds of diagnotsic equipment and a 13 year old to show you how to use it It's just different tools And it's fine
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Jan 18, 2009 15:58:53 GMT
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I remember reading a letter in 'Classic And Sportscar' from about 1984 from a chap with a Morris Minor who'd gone to the motorshow and come back wondering what would happen in 20 years time because of the newfangled electronic ignition and turbos ect fitted to modern cars... magazine's reply was that 'they probably said the same about overhead valves and independant front suspension when the Minor came out...' I bet the owners of MK3 Cortinas that needed new camshafts at 6 months old due to blocked oil spraybars cursed 'modern' cars... ;D Thing is, if these faults are showing up now, and leading to cars beeing scapped, in 15 years time only the reliable ones will still be around, so whats the problem? A fair point BUT, scrapped cams and blocked spray bars are mechanical things that anyone with some mechanical knowhow can physically see/diagnose/mend, electrical gremlins in electronic control units that cost umpteen hundred pounds are a different matter. Its taking the ability to fix cars by the local mechanic and diy tinkerer away and means most things are becoming a Dealer only fix............. this worrys me! doesn't that just mean that the next generation of retro-riders will be electrical experts just as the current ones are mechanically knowledgeable?
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Jan 18, 2009 16:50:50 GMT
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i don't think it does the cars will just be older like somebodys allready said modern cars are just to bland
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97 volvo 940 turbo wagon 87 fiat strada abarth 78 gs1000 82 katana 1100 84 gsx1100 efe
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Tim
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,340
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Jan 18, 2009 16:59:26 GMT
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I'd love a brand new company car, as i could sod the servicing, leave it to them, cruise around in it for work, and spend MY money on a fun old retro :-)
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ezzysi
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,189
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Jan 18, 2009 17:12:03 GMT
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A fair point BUT, scrapped cams and blocked spray bars are mechanical things that anyone with some mechanical knowhow can physically see/diagnose/mend, electrical gremlins in electronic control units that cost umpteen hundred pounds are a different matter. Its taking the ability to fix cars by the local mechanic and diy tinkerer away and means most things are becoming a Dealer only fix............. this worrys me! doesn't that just mean that the next generation of retro-riders will be electrical experts just as the current ones are mechanically knowledgeable? Almost certainly so, BUT I for one find it easier to fix things I can see than things I can't. My job involves mechanical and electrical fault finding (i'm a service engineer working on office equipment and computer networks) and I find it far quicker/simpler/cheaper fixing the older machines that are mechanically based compared to newer stuff that dosn't go wrong until a £1000 circuit board blows and renders an otherwise perfect machine as scrap. Anyhow the original point of the thread was that CURRENTLY the man on the street can't diagnose alot of potentially expensive faults on modern cars like he can a retro................ and that scares me when running a modern motor. have some retro's to keep it real...
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1991 Mk2 Golf Gti 8v 2005 Passat tdi (daily) 1971 Mk1 Escort 2004 Touran (her's)
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