bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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Dec 24, 2008 21:40:40 GMT
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OH DEAR, lets face it, go back far enough and the good union jack will cause offence to somone (actually taking into accout our history it will probably offend a fookoff lot of peeps), if you look deep enough into anything there's gonna be something offencive somewhere  Even the stars and stripes can offend certain peeps so my personal veiw is FOOK IT you can't please all the people all the time so why try |
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Last Edit: Dec 24, 2008 21:42:03 GMT by bortaf
R.I.P photobucket
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Dec 24, 2008 21:44:27 GMT
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 Thing is, from a historical standpoint, this charger should be at least as offensive. But it isn't. No-one bats an eyelid, and its racial connotations are used as the basis for a joke in the movie.... I'm not a big fan of flags... I'm even less a fan of using someone elses flag for decoration, but thats just taste. |
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in |
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Dec 24, 2008 21:46:10 GMT
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I don't really think it comes down to facts and figures over war crimes, you can use Wikipedia to prove just about any point. Really it's just a case of 'will this be offensive'?
As pointed out, Swastikas touch a lot of nerves, and are outlawed in Germany due to their obvious connections. Now the more knowledgable know the Swastika was around long before the Nazis got their hands on it, but as a symbol it just associates with one image - Nazi Germany.
So the question wasn't (and shouldn't be) 'should we forgive the imperial Chinese' but 'will anyone find this offensive?' At the end of the day it's just geometric patterns but I appreciate the concern over using it.
IMHO it's not AS offensive as a swastika, and I'd have no problem using it as a motif. I wouldn't pretend to know the ins and outs of what it means though.
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Never trust a man
Who names himself Trevor.
Or one day you might find
He's not a real drug dealer.
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Dec 24, 2008 21:48:09 GMT
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I'd have no problem with using a rising sun emblem and even less with using a swastika.
*n
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Top grammar tips!
Bought = purchased. Brought = relocated
Lose = misplace/opposite of win. Loose = your mum
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Dec 24, 2008 22:14:47 GMT
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Thing is, from a historical standpoint, this charger should be at least as offensive. But it isn't. No-one bats an eyelid, and its racial connotations are used as the basis for a joke in the movie.... I'm not a big fan of flags... I'm even less a fan of using someone elses flag for decoration, but thats just taste. it is banned on the Scale Auto Enthusiast site for those very reasons. |
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Dec 24, 2008 22:37:59 GMT
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Only because of people's obliviousness to what happened. Matt England and America have also committed more than their fair share of war crimes. No offence, but I suggest you read about the building of the Burma railway or the Rpae of Nankang. What Britain and America did paled in comparison. I like top think I am pretty knowledgeable on this era, but don't really see the rising sun as offensive. Reason why? It's still used today en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_Flag |
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Dec 24, 2008 22:47:31 GMT
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Try telling the Japanese military it's controversial! I guess it's just a flag at the end of the day and if you want it on your car, I can't see anyone questioning YOUR faith to the country or patriotism. Amen.
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m0rris
Part of things
Posts: 195
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Dec 24, 2008 23:42:38 GMT
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The rising sun does have unwanted baggage, but no-where near as bad a the swastika and while they did do many bad hing during the war (my mums gp when she was little never bought J after his experience of them) we commited what would have of been seen as war crimes on them but we won so not raised....
But leaving these politics to one side, the problem with it is that it looks so damn good on anything J from about 1970 on, and you can't put it on things like a grandad!
m0rris
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Dec 24, 2008 23:49:56 GMT
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Thing is, from a historical standpoint, this charger should be at least as offensive. But it isn't. No-one bats an eyelid... Oh, Andy. The "Stars & Bars" are QUITE a hot button topic here in the states, and have been ever since the end of the Civil War. (The war where Britain sided with the slave-holding Confederacy, BTW.) The subject of South Carolina's decision over whether to excise the "jack" from its state flag and make it illegal to fly in public areas was one of the presidential campaign issues this past cycle. Some view the General Lee's decoration as a "rebel yell" against conformity. A great many others view it as racist. Lots of eyelids batting here ever since 1865, my good friend. In fact, it wasn't until AFTER the Civil War was lost that many former Confederate States incorporated the symbol into their state flags as a way to say, "South will rise again!" and "Jim Crow segregation is alive and well." |
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 Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com |
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Dec 24, 2008 23:57:06 GMT
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England and America have also committed more than their fair share of war crimes. No offence, but I suggest you read about the building of the Burma railway or the Rpae of Nankang. What Britain and America did paled in comparison. I like top think I am pretty knowledgeable on this era, but don't really see the rising sun as offensive. Reason why? It's still used today en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rising_Sun_FlagAgree with all you say. But you should pay particular heed to this sentence in the Wiki: "This flag is often considered offensive in countries which were victims of Japanese aggression, particularly China and Korea, where it is considered as a symbol of Japanese imperialism." And that's what goes to the heart of Herald's question. His decision, natch. I'm off now! Humbugs and Merries to those who wish for one or the other, as you choose. You all have my friendship, ladies and germs. ;D |
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Team Blitz Ford Capri parts worldwide: Restoration, Road, or Race. Used, Repro, and NOS, ranging from scabby to perfect. Itching your Capri jones since 1979! Buy, sell, trade. www.teamblitz.com blitz@teamblitz.com |
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MartinC
Part of things
Don't like stretched tyres, very low profile tyres & I think a car CAN be too low. Perhaps I'm odd.
Posts: 935
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Team Blitz, it's nice to read an informed opinion rather than "oh it's just about some old gits it's nothing to do with us  |
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1937 Standard Flying Twelve
1943 Bedford OYD
1947 Cadillac Fleetwood Sixty-Special
1954 Hillman Minx MkVIII
1956 Austin A30
1957 Vauxhall Victor Super
2001 Chrysler 300M
2002 Rover 75 Connoisseur SE Tourer
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Id never heard about the rising sun flag being classed as offensive, its certainly news to me. If it really was that offensive to people why would it be in such common use nowadays? Swastikas, obviously are anti-social in the extreme although wasnt the swastika originally a Hindu symbol?
Imagine driving round in a car with a huge swastka on the roof? It would certainly turn heads!
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1987 Maestro 1.6 HL perkins diesel conversion 1986 Audi 100 Avant 1800cc on LPG 1979 Allegro Series 2 special 4 door 1500cc with vynil roof. IN BITS. HERITAGE ISSUES.  |
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Phinn
Part of things
Posts: 93
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The Rising Sun Flag does have negative connotations in certain parts of the world, but then so does the Union Flag. Equating a Rising Sun with a Swastika shows a lack of understanding in their respective histories. The Swastika (in its Nazi adopted form) was solely a device used for promotion of the Nazi party. The Rising Sun is a traditional Japanese symbol (the Japanese word for Japan, Nihon, literally means 'origin of the sun') and has been used as the formal flag for the country since the start of the Meiji period of Japanese history (e.g. the start of Japan's modern age).
It would be offensive to brandish it in places like China and Korea, but no-more than the Union Flag would be in places where we have a less than stellar history. Don't fall into a victor's trap. Just because it was used by Imperial Japan does not make it inherently tainted. Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were allies, but they were fighting for entire different purposes and lumping them together as the same is just lazy.
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With a bocephus sticker on his 442, he'd light 'em up just for fun
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MartinC
Part of things
Don't like stretched tyres, very low profile tyres & I think a car CAN be too low. Perhaps I'm odd.
Posts: 935
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Dec 25, 2008 10:19:10 GMT
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Don't fall into a victor's trap. Just because it was used by Imperial Japan does not make it inherently tainted. Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were allies, but they were fighting for entire different purposes and lumping them together as the same is just lazy. I don't think anyone was. I think it was being pointed out that Japan comitted it's own share of attrocities. The way the Japanese treated anyone else was considerably worse than could be described as "less than stellar". It's an unfortunate British trait that we tend to put ourselves down, but we have done nothing in modern history that can in any way be compared. |
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1937 Standard Flying Twelve
1943 Bedford OYD
1947 Cadillac Fleetwood Sixty-Special
1954 Hillman Minx MkVIII
1956 Austin A30
1957 Vauxhall Victor Super
2001 Chrysler 300M
2002 Rover 75 Connoisseur SE Tourer
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Dec 25, 2008 10:26:15 GMT
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My mate bought a Hilux brand new years ago (its an old B reg whatever year that is) and had a bed cover made in white with the J rising sun on it, he's never mentioned anyone saying anything and he's still got the truck with the cover on it.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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Dec 25, 2008 11:57:13 GMT
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Don't fall into a victor's trap. Just because it was used by Imperial Japan does not make it inherently tainted. Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan were allies, but they were fighting for entire different purposes and lumping them together as the same is just lazy. I don't think anyone was. I think it was being pointed out that Japan comitted it's own share of attrocities. The way the Japanese treated anyone else was considerably worse than could be described as "less than stellar". It's an unfortunate British trait that we tend to put ourselves down, but we have done nothing in modern history that can in any way be compared. Nowadays we're far more subversive in our work. "We knew Saddam had weapons of mass destruction.." "How?" "We...Er...Looked at the receipt..." *n |
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Top grammar tips!
Bought = purchased. Brought = relocated
Lose = misplace/opposite of win. Loose = your mum
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MartinC
Part of things
Don't like stretched tyres, very low profile tyres & I think a car CAN be too low. Perhaps I'm odd.
Posts: 935
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Dec 25, 2008 13:16:22 GMT
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As I said, "that can in any way be compared". Trying to compare the Gulf war with The war in the Pacific? Yeah right. That analogy stands up |
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1937 Standard Flying Twelve
1943 Bedford OYD
1947 Cadillac Fleetwood Sixty-Special
1954 Hillman Minx MkVIII
1956 Austin A30
1957 Vauxhall Victor Super
2001 Chrysler 300M
2002 Rover 75 Connoisseur SE Tourer
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Dec 25, 2008 13:55:30 GMT
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As I said, "that can in any way be compared". I was agreeing with you and pressing the point that while we aren't operating anything like unit 731 (that is known...), our hands are by no means clean in modern history. We (and many, many other Western countries) are complete bastids. Interestingly, the 'bad ones' of WW2 have been on the whole pretty good in modern history. I wasn't. Feel free to read what you want to though The Rising sun/Swastika analogy is imperfect. Closer would be Rising Sun/Iron Cross - both symbols associated with VeryBadThings yet both used today. *n |
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Top grammar tips!
Bought = purchased. Brought = relocated
Lose = misplace/opposite of win. Loose = your mum
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Dec 25, 2008 15:55:31 GMT
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Thing is, from a historical standpoint, this charger should be at least as offensive. But it isn't. No-one bats an eyelid... Oh, Andy. The "Stars & Bars" are QUITE a hot button topic here in the states, and have been ever since the end of the Civil War. (The war where Britain sided with the slave-holding Confederacy, BTW.) The subject of South Carolina's decision over whether to excise the "jack" from its state flag and make it illegal to fly in public areas was one of the presidential campaign issues this past cycle. Some view the General Lee's decoration as a "rebel yell" against conformity. A great many others view it as racist. Lots of eyelids batting here ever since 1865, my good friend. In fact, it wasn't until AFTER the Civil War was lost that many former Confederate States incorporated the symbol into their state flags as a way to say, "South will rise again!" and "Jim Crow segregation is alive and well." Perhaps I should have said that in Britain, no-one bats an eyelid, Norm... Most people here only associate the confederate flag with the dukes, or country music, the whole issue behind it is lost in the mists of time and fogged by gloss. Although your answer does illustrate the subjectiveness of the whole question very well indeed! My reason for bringing it up in the first place? I thought it relevant. There is a famous car with a questionable flag on the top of it. Would I have passed a huge pile of them in a toyshop yesterday if the makers set the show in japan, used a skyline, put a rising sun on the roof and named it Admiral Yamamoto? The problem is time. It's still too soon, there are people out there in Britain today with first hand experience of WW2, but no-one with direct experience of slavery. As time goes on though, I suspect things will change. |
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To get a standard A40 this low, you'd have to dig a hole to put it in |
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