sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Aug 14, 2015 18:39:25 GMT
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Love that shot, the way you can read part of Garrett, anyway you can rotate it a few degrees so you can see the whole name ... Just needs the bolts on the back of the compressor slackening off and it would tap round. I really wasn't thinking about that when I was making the mounting parts and the intake hoses, should be enough space around the outlet elbow to let it move a touch more round... I did a little reading on the different colour springs available in aftermarket BOV's, got confused and put the stiffest spring that came with my valve in, went out for a test drive and it made about 5psi! I will check the external wastegate next to see if that's working correctly or not, I could be losing pressure through that? Interestingly on another forum I've seen reference to a Holset HY35 fitted to a Rover T series engine that was making 25psi, something to aim for
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Aug 15, 2015 11:02:30 GMT
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I've been doing a little more research on exhaust manifolds and turbo's. The manifold I made to fit the T25 was quickly thrown together to get the engine to fit int he bay of the P6, all done before the engine was fitted so I really didn't know properly how much space was available. Now I've just fitted the overly big Garrett T04 with twin scroll exhaust housing, I can really feel the engine is more responsive over the T25 in the low-mid rpm range. Obviously the way in which I've bolted the big Garrett on is a temporary bodge to see if it's the way forward, so now I'm looking forward Doing a bit of digging, apparently joining cylinders 1+4 and 2+3 into a divided T3 flange should help spool up the twin scroll turbo I'm now in the position where I can take very specific dimensions of the head to turbo flanges and the space available allowing for reaching in to actually fit it and other related maintenance jobs, and hopefully make a much better flowing manifold
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Aug 18, 2015 14:23:12 GMT
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I think could be an issue when cruising at about 1500rpm and it's sitting at 5psi! depends if thats 5psi over atmospheric, or 5 over absolute. 5 over absolute might actually be helping
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Last Edit: Aug 18, 2015 14:29:21 GMT by darrenh
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Aug 30, 2015 10:48:52 GMT
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froggy
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,099
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Aug 30, 2015 11:14:19 GMT
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234 is the way to go , best oe management for a turbo ever made and fully open for mapping and data logging
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froggy
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,099
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Aug 30, 2015 11:20:19 GMT
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If your thinking about compound charging you need a mass air flow input so it knows the difference between pressure from supercharger and combined from both .
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Aug 30, 2015 11:47:41 GMT
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234 is the way to go , best oe management for a turbo ever made and fully open for mapping and data logging I've been doing a lot of reading up on the B234 and it seems to be the best inline 4 available that does not need money throwing at it with custom aftermarket parts. Just give it a refresh with new bearings, gaskets and seals and it should be good for more than what I'll want. Rwd conversion is easy as there are off the shelf bellhousings and also uses common clutch plate sizes. If your thinking about compound charging you need a mass air flow input so it knows the difference between pressure from supercharger and combined from both . My Megasquirt has a 38psi MAP sensor fitted, surely it wouldn't matter how the pressure gets to the inlet manifold/engine? Plan is to experiment and develop anyway, still need to work out how and where the idle bypass system will fit, maybe even incorporating a supercharger bypass too?
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froggy
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,099
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Aug 30, 2015 12:19:21 GMT
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I enjoyed the time I spent building my system and it would take too long to go through all the issues but the fact is that the solution to lag etc it to buy a modern ball bearing turbo sized to suit what you want to achieve . The only advantage the twin charge had was a little more torque from 2500-3200
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Aug 30, 2015 12:39:38 GMT
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I enjoyed the time I spent building my system and it would take too long to go through all the issues but the fact is that the solution to lag etc it to buy a modern ball bearing turbo sized to suit what you want to achieve . The only advantage the twin charge had was a little more torque from 2500-3200 Part of what I want to do is see what rubbish and curse word can be successfully be thrown together on a budget to work. As long as it's fun to drive then I've achieved my goal Also, as you say the learning is fun and the knowledge and experience acquired can then be applied to a better engine and neater planned installation....
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froggy
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,099
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Aug 30, 2015 12:49:55 GMT
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Preaching to the choir mate , I would put the throttle in front of the charger and spray water / meth into the blower case to keep it cool . Blower bypass doesn't need to be very large this way and the bov just goes in the usual place . If you can find a way to open the bypass once it reached a couple of psi over the sc output you could let the turbo do the heavy lifting but as I said you need a mass air measure to deal with the transition from compound pressure to pure turbo which I couldn't do with the t5 trionic being speed density and the later t7 being maf based I went with a new fangled ball bearing blower . Never got bored of the noises it used to make though
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Last Edit: Aug 30, 2015 12:54:38 GMT by froggy
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Aug 30, 2015 13:15:18 GMT
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Preaching to the choir mate , I would put the throttle in front of the charger and spray water / meth into the blower case to keep it cool . Blower bypass doesn't need to be very large this way and the bov just goes in the usual place . If you can find a way to open the bypass once it reached a couple of psi over the sc output you could let the turbo do the heavy lifting but as I said you need a mass air measure to deal with the transition from compound pressure to pure turbo which I couldn't do with the t5 trionic being speed density and the later t7 being maf based I went with a new fangled ball bearing blower . Never got bored of the noises it used to make though I don't believe there is any single perfect way of doing it, whatever happens will be a compromise. I could relocate the throttle body to the supercharger intake, or even go all the way and make a plenum replacing the top half of the inlet manifold trying to maintain equal-ish air distribution to all four cylinders possibly even keeping it below the bonnet line. This way would also be relatively easy to install in the present installation, but I'd have the intake charge pre-heated right at the manifold. Plus is that at small throttle openings it should be fairly quiet, then what all hell would break loose!
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Aug 30, 2015 16:11:23 GMT
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There is just enough room to remove the top half of the inlet manifold and mount the supercharger directly to that I've measured the crank pulley at 140mm diameter, and have a choice of two suitable pulleys to adapt to the Eaton nose of 50mm and 63mm, giving pulley ratios of approx 2.75 and 2.2. Going by this the 50mm pulley would be more likely to overspeed the M62 and bake the air going in. Using rough generic calculations the Eaton M62 with a 63mm pulley should be able to produce 10-15psi which is right on the top side of what I want to hit with it
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Aug 31, 2015 13:25:33 GMT
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820
South East
Posts: 793
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Aug 31, 2015 13:56:09 GMT
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With regards to your oil seal/breather issue, I have been through this. You might already be using it but on the exhaust side of the block there is what looks like a fuel pump blanking plate probably from the blocks B series days, this is a good place to make a crankcase breather and as you already say an oil return from the catch tank to the sump. Hope this is of some help. Fascinating project
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Aug 31, 2015 14:11:42 GMT
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With regards to your oil seal/breather issue, I have been through this. You might already be using it but on the exhaust side of the block there is what looks like a fuel pump blanking plate probably from the blocks B series days, this is a good place to make a crankcase breather and as you already say an oil return from the catch tank to the sump. Hope this is of some help. Fascinating project Yep I'm using that one, part of the issue I believe was the hose had fallen off the other side under the inlet manifold and I'd been fiddling with the rocker cover breather to inlet manifold hose. The oil drain tube has been welded into the sump, just waiting on the ground to dry out a bit more before refitting the sump.
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Aug 31, 2015 19:11:33 GMT
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Sept 6, 2015 21:09:01 GMT
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The Eaton M62 has finally been mounted on the engine ready for a test drive It runs and makes about 5psi just by blipping the throttle, the belt hasn't thrown itself off and there appear to be no air leaks after the throttle which I'm pleased with. There is however a serious issue, the intake temps are excessively high to the point where I'm not even going to take the P6 out for a test drive. I doubt it would go more than about 5 miles without melting a piston with the temperature where it is only after 3 minutes of idling. I now have a dilemma, so far it's not cost me much to make the supercharger setup as it is because I had most of the parts to hand. I've got a few options to consider, first choice is how to incorporate a chargecooler between the supercharger and the inlet manifold, and re-investigate the idle bypass systems as used on Mini's, Jaguar's with the Eaton superchargers. I have a complete idle bypass from a Jaguar XJR6 to hand. Also, do I continue with the supercharger after the throttle, or put it before? Lots to consider, and the next step looks like it's going to involve some serious money being spent.
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sowen
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,245
Club RR Member Number: 24
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Sept 8, 2015 20:20:32 GMT
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I've started on a plan to 'fix' the engine meltingly high intake temps.... So far I've ordered a Jaguar chargecooler from a V8, the idea to make an adapter or re-weld the port flange to attach to the Rover manifold. The hope is that the 4 ports roughly align and also the top of the chargecooler gives a reasonable equal distribution of air. I intend to fit the throttle body direct to the elbow on the chargecooler after the supercharger After a little more rough research I've also ordered a water pump assembly from a BMW Mini, it's mounted externally to the Mini engine, is a complete unit and is cheap secondhand! The idea is to mount it somewhere on my engine to flow the water round the chargecooler and heat exchanger. I have no idea how the variable flow rate of an engine driven water pump will compare to the expensive oem electric water pumps, be fun finding out either way! That leaves searching for a suitable heat exchanger that will fit in the engine bay, probably below the intercooler at the front and then how to control the heat when there is little to no airflow when stationary or at slow speeds? I guess a small header tank will also be needed somewhere in the engine bay too, and a water temp gauge to monitor the performance and heatsoak.
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Siert
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,107
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Sept 9, 2015 17:49:24 GMT
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Great as always!
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MrSpeedy
East Midlands
www.vintagediesels.co.uk
Posts: 4,791
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Sept 9, 2015 21:13:09 GMT
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Do you think you have any 'spare' cooling capacity from the radiator? I know it's a big one. I only ask because you could possibly use a water-water heat exchanger plumbed into the bottom hose.
I used a water-oil heat exchanger on my sprintfire which worked well, we use water-water heat exchangers for cooling marine engines
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