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The Environmental Audit Committee's official report backs the move to increase car tax for "gas guzzlers" back to 2001 from 2006 as a "step in the right direction" but says its not "severe" enough to deter people from running these kinds of cars. And remember that a PT Cruiser or a Mondeo V6 is a "gas guzzler" these days....
They want to see the taxes raised still further to tax these cars right off the roads and get people into more "environmentally friendly" small cars with low emissions.
Which is a debate for another forum as cars post-2001 are not retro no matter how broadly you want to apply the term. The really interesting and potentially bad bit is the recommendation for a subsidised scrapping scheme to encourage people to weigh in their old "high polution" cars and get a kick-back int he form of a tax break to buy a new low polution car.
Now these schemes are frequenly suggested by the likes of Vauxhall, the SMMT, FoTE, Retail Motor Federation, etc. either as a way of selling more cars, as a belief its "green" or a belief it will help road safety.
But this is the first time that a group of policy makers have come out in favour of it. And the joke is that if they get their way the taxes to fund the scrapping scheme will probably come from increased taxes on cars anyway...
When Vauxhall proposed this a year or so ago they seemed surprised at the hostility from the classic fraternity saying it was only really going to be aimed at people with dirty old bangers as daily drivers. Thats me then LOL. But failed to realise that a lot of those little old lady J-tin and such will be the prime targets for this.
I dunno if it was linked here or I saw it elsewhere but there was a website for a scheme running in (IIRC) California where the cars being pulled in an crushed were't just the 80s Buick Somersets and 90s Mercury Topaz or whatever you'd think of but mid 60s Mustangs, late 60s Valiants and Darts and early 70s Impalas and the like.... All stuff with a commercial value but somehow ending up inthe fragger because the elderly owner got pulled into the "green" arguement of it all without being given any actual facts or options as his $8000 classic is fragged and he feels great 'cos he got a $2500 discount off a new Camry....
Meh, Monday mornings, eh?
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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It's even more annoying when you consider the carbon footprint used to mass produce boring faceless Euroboxes. If these 'green' people really want to do something about pollution they should be supporting people like us for keeping old cars running. Christ on a bike, we're like the original recyclers and still they want to have a go. Goes without saying it's all about squeezing a few more quid out of us and lining the pockets of the manafacturers.
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Corsa Apology Champion 2014.
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It's all utter stupidity. Lots of people thrashing little cars about, using more emissions that if they'd stuck with a larger car with decent cruising ability.
A 3000 mile a year Jaguar pays loads of tax while little city cars that clock up over 10,000 pay tuppence.
As for scrapping old stuff, Italy and France have partaken in these schemes. Truly heartbreaking as you see really nice, solid classics scrapped just so foolish idiots can go running to car manufacturers with a healthy discount.
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1986 Citroen 2CV Dolly Other things. Check out my Blog for the latest! www.hubnut.org
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While its cool to be cynical and all that - I think this is just a case of the road to hell being paved with good intentions. Its not been thought through, as ever, and once peole get an idea in their heads...
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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After the iron curtain went down the car dealers and munufacturers over here had a field day. Towards the middle of the 90´s the boom ebbed away and several Manufacturers (Ford started it off)came up with the fantastic idea of offering an "environment bonus" on a new car if you scrapped your old one. Thousands of clasics and "retro" landed in the skip!!! to be repalced with new Fiestas & Co. The dealers wern´t allowed to sell the really good examples on and you wern´t even allowed to take bits off them. My mates are in the trade and there wasn´t a day went by where even immaculate, 1 owner, top condition classics landed in the bin!! Must emphasize this wasn´t financed with any taxes, for once the government wasn´t involved, but it was all done in the name of saving the environment....... When you consider that most air - sea and rail mileage is clocked up without any consideration for the planet you just have to sit back and smile when they come up with new ways of taking money out of your wallets!!! And it won´t get any better in the future, enjoy it while you can our grandchildren won´t have that choice.
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Yep it doesnt make logical sense, most cars find their natural end anyway, when they are used and tired. If they don't die there they are lovingly restored, or kept with that in mind. Doing little damage. maybe they just want us bullied out of cars altogether along with congestion tax and other economy bashing bullyboy tactics so we can get on this apparent fantastic affordable public transport - NOT. Whilst squeezing a bit more credit revenue from a crunched economy! Recycling FTW, whats up with the cretins!
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it doesn't matter if it's a Morris Marina or a Toyota Celica - it's what you do with it that counts
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So they think that recycling an old car (which essentially involves seperating materials, and then running it all through powered machinery to reduce it to plastic granules, metal frag, rubber chippings etc) and then using a factory to produce a new car, is more environmentally sound than just keeping the old car? What the flip?
Environmental statistics on new cars are all rubbish anyway. I hired a Fiesta - 57 reg, 1.25 engine, supposedly get up to 67mpg on a long run according to the bumpf in the glovebox. Due to the weedy engine struggling to keep up with traffic I got 34mpg, measured by the trip computer and verified by me over 280 miles. That's WORSE than my 1990 Golf, my 1984 Scirocco, my 1991 Polo complete with supercharger. So where's the benefit to the environment?
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Never trust a man Who names himself Trevor. Or one day you might find He's not a real drug dealer.
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Waste less food! re-use carrier bags! Turn the heating down and put another jumper on! THROW YOUR PERFECTLY USEABLE CAR AWAY AND BUY A NEW ONE TO HELP SAVE THE ENVIRONMENT! It makes me want to cry. Whats the point arguing with such logic? Its a waste of time.
I was listening to this debate on the radio this morning. Tim Yeo, who headed the working group who came up with the rreport AK mentions, says 'the tax incentives/disincentives should definitley apply to used cars as well as new because 3/4 of car sales in this country are used cars'!!! Obviously he's now discovered a link between the number of times a car is bought and sold in its lifetime, with the emissions it produces. This is a no doubt educated man, steering an influential cross-party political project on an important issue which concerns everybody, and here he is on national radio spouting utter, utter nonsense that any pre-GCSE student could pull apart in seconds.
He seems to think there would be another, positive effect of these tax stings, beyond the obvious one where people grudgingly stump up another £200 for a couple of years then scrap their car which is economically worthless at 7 years old, despite being perfectly usable for a few more years.
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1974 Lancia Beta Saloon 1975 Mazda 929 Coupé 1986 Mazda 929 Wagon 1979 Mazda 929 Hardtop 1982 Fiat Argenta 2.0 iniezione elettronica 1977 Toyota Carina TA14 1989 Subaru 1800 Wagon 1982 Hyundai Pony 1200TL 2-dr 1985 Hyundai Pony 1200 GL 1986 Maserati 425 Biturbo 1992 Rover 214 SEi 5-dr 2000 Rover 45 V6 Club 1994 Peugeot 205 'Junior' Diesel 1988 Volvo 760 Turbodiesel Saloon 1992 Talbot Express Autosleeper Rambler 2003 Renault Laguna SPEARS OR REAPERS
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"People shouldn't be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people" 'Bout time we scrapped them! These people frustrate me indefinitely. Bit like the ones that sell their perfectly reasonable car, buy a new 'eco' diesel on some vast loan when they only do a measly mileage each year...........Aaarrggghhhhh!
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Last Edit: Aug 4, 2008 9:52:27 GMT by Lewis
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They can try to take it off me. But if they do, I will defend it, like I'm entitled to with any of my property.
I don't want ministers trying a kickstart a fragged economy, by using my tax money to bribe people into making more scrap for China to buy and taking on another debt, using the environment as a big stick to beat people into feeling guilty.
If they want to do something to clean up the air we breathe, they should insist that oil powered power stations build algae farms to clean their outputs and convert the algae into fuel oil to partially power the station.
Local authorities who run rubbish incerators should be forced to do the same, using the converted oil to run the bin wagons.
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They can try to take it off me. But if they do, I will defend it, like I'm entitled to with any of my property. two points... 1. they are not trying to take anything off you, except the oportunity to buy more retro goodies in the future. I can see it now, theres a little old lady down your way has a tidy old Datsun 100A she's owned from new. You ask one day if you might buy it off her, and she says "sure sonny, £5000" which you say is "crazy" and she says "well thats what the tax rebate against a new Corolla is..." and a week later you see a new Corrolla outside her house.... 2. I very much doubt you are entitled to stop the government or its appointed representatives. They can take you house and knock it down to build a new road or an airport without your concent so I'd have thought that they could take your car with less bother. Hell, they took all the privately owned handguns away 10 years ago and if anybody was tooled up to stop their property being confiscated by the government then you'd think the gun lobby was!
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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rysz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,558
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Write to your MP, you can do it on line and ask them to raise the question of how this helps people who can only afford to buy older cars due to income and availability reasons.
Also, while you are at it, ask them to explain the economics of scrapping perfectly useable cars and then advising people to buy newer ones which have a much higher carbon footprint rahter than saving the energy that it takes to manufacture / ship these new cars and ask why this is better than recycling an old car.
Remember, it is your right as a voter to have questions raised on your behalf in Parliament for a discussion, It might be interesting to see what is discussed then...
Rysz.
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same scheme has been applied in turkey about 4-5 years ago where goverment offered people around 20-25% discount on a new car where they scrap their 20year old or older cars ,too many classics got crushed at the time including a nice fiat 131 my friend scrapped and bought a brand new clio at the time .
funny enough ,after all those years ,just had a word with my mate yesterday . he is well curse word off with the running costs of the clio and regrets scrapping the good old fiat where you could get parts for even from a little corner shop .
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That's the most annoying thing. It dupes non-petrol heads into scrapping a worthy car for something they probably can't actually afford, especially with the current financial stagnation.
The only people who benefit are car manufacturers, slime-dripping salesmen and the MPs themselves who get a nice slice of tax with every purchase.
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1986 Citroen 2CV Dolly Other things. Check out my Blog for the latest! www.hubnut.org
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bortaf
Posted a lot
Posts: 4,549
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Lets face it, it all total bollxs, a contibner ship burns enough fuel in one trip from china to the UK to run a car 15 times round the world, the real answer is to stop fecking imports from china but lets face it the goverment makes money on the imports so won't be doing that. Is it me or have the goverment got lazy about it's bullshite recently? or perhaps i just notic it more?
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R.I.P photobucket
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harris66
Part of things
drive it, break it, fix it and make it quicker!
Posts: 699
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it amazes me that at a time when the gments popularity is at an all time low that they can keep spewing out this garbage, was listening to this in my truck this morning, alongside an article on local councils fineing people for putting out bin bags on the wrong day etc etc etc, its just more b***ollocks from an unpopular goverment with pathetic weak leader ship that need to be ousted asap. not sure if any other lot would make a diff but jeez please save us from these morons.
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1.2 corsa daily, 1.8t a4 avante, 6.3ltr austin a40....
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I'm pretty sure I heard a while back that it uses as much, if not more, energy to produce the materials and a car than the car uses in an average lifetime.
Which all makes it a ridiculously stupid idea. What they need to do is produce really efficient engines and fit them in old cars!
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The journey of 1000 miles starts with a single coffee.
I don't like coffee!
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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As you know I tend to avoid political hyperbole, but this seems to have some momentum today.
Write to your MP, get them to ask for the justifications in terms of environmental, social, economic and individual financial impact. Write to them now.
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it amazes me that at a time when the gments popularity is at an all time low that they can keep spewing out this garbage. its an all party committee. Tim Yeo who heads this committee is a Conservative and other sittig members will be Liberals as well as Labour. And its not a particularly British thing either, as mentioned in the tread so far its happened in Turkey, Italy, France, the USA, Australia (although a different scheme there) and doubtless elsewhere as well and don't forget Japan and some other states having a differently hostile approach to older cars... Local councils are also not part of the governement. They are run and elected completely separately and are often easier to enact change in as fewer people tend to vote in local elections. How much credibility this proposal has, I don't know, I suspect not that much in its current form, but it shows the way *all* the political parties are thinking in the UK regarding the private motor car... The tories had gas guzzler punative taxation in their manifesto before Labour made it happen... Hmmmm....
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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