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Air-con: It makes the air cold. It’s a system which works by pumping a gas compressed into a liquid round a system of evaporators and condensers and heat exchangers yeah, yeah, yeah. Got that. What I don’t get is the gas business. When a/c systems first came out they used a gas which turned out to be evil: poisonous, destroys the ozone layer, that sort of thing. So it was replaced by a gas which is kinder, sweeter and helps little old ladies across the road, volunteers at a homeless shelter, that sort of thing. Generally makes the world a better place. Until it was discovered that this gas is also evil. It sneaks in your house while you’re asleep and rapes your mum up the back passage. However an even newer gas is available which has a cure for AIDs and a solution to world peace. And so the cycle of good and evil continues. Of course there are compatibility issues with the various gases and some of the older AC gasses are now banned from sale. This is as far as my knowledge on the subject runs. As we in the UK were comparatively late to the air conditioning game most of our cars with A/C are the ones built in the last decade or so which I think all have the newest gas. However those of us with older American and Japanese cars have air-con in cars fro the 80s,70s and even 60s. These have a requirement for the older type of gas, probably. But I’m not sure why. Is it just a case that if I have old-gas in my system that it needs to purged before I can get the system gassed up with the new stuff? Or do seals, rubber hoses etc. (even pumps or compressors) need to be changed? Do some gases mix OK or are they all incompatible? What’s the deal? Car is a 1984 Cadillac with factory ECU controlled “electronic climate control”.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Is that a dwarf polar bear? It is worrying me.
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Old cars used R12 (Refrigerant 12) because it was fantastically efficient in aircon systems. Newer cars use R134A which isn't so horrible to the ozone layer and if you use this you'll need to purge the system completely of R12 because it uses synthetic oil, and old R12 had mineral oil. Some places used to recommend a change of condensor, compressor, pipework.... so could be an expensive switch! I think there's a gas now called R49 which is more compatible with R12 systems, just blow out the old with oxygen free nitrogen and drop in the R49. Phone a few local aircon places, mention R49 and see if they say "uhh?" or "we use that often"
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Last Edit: May 7, 2008 9:19:11 GMT by garethj
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thanks.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Tim
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,340
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I hate it, mine packed up yesterday in the heat - just makes clonking sounds and gives you instant engine braking, so i nturned it off sharpish and sweated all the way home - had to go faster to get cooler air then :-)
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just makes clonking sounds and gives you instant engine braking That sounds like a siezed compressor
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to convert to R134a refrigerant from the older R12 system aint that hard , the R12 needs total reclaiming from the system and then a susbsitute refrigerant with simialer propertys needs adding , before this is done the oil which as been previously described as mineral oil will need removing fro the system , after retro fitting the system to R134a you need to hqave more polyoester oil (for the newer refrigerant) than mineral oil, I.e if you have 90 % poly and 10 % mineral it will work ok. as to the newer R134a not being as effecient as R12 , well thats down to the fact that your compressor was built to handle R12 and not R134a , molocules are smaller for R134a. as previously described there is R49 wich is a drop in gas which will suffice till they ban that aswell. the problem with the older gas was it was a chloro floro carbon, they then moved to a hydro chloro carbon , now its a hydro floro carbon and eventually it will ended up being carbon dioxide or co2 as its more commonly known . but the operating prssures for the co2 is scarey. systems are having to be proof tested to well in excess of 1000 psi. as to the seals on the pump leaking, ac in cars idealy need running every week for around a few hours to lubricate the seals. .
tim , sounds to me like a/c pump has seized , when you switch on the electro magnetic clutch pulls in and starts spinning the compressor .
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Tim
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,340
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just makes clonking sounds and gives you instant engine braking That sounds like a siezed compressor Kinda what i presumed but was dreading as it will be £££ to replace and sort - it clonks at intervals - when I tried to rejet the system a week or so ago it took ages to kick in and take any refridgerant, and then started doing the clonking cycle and would alternate between really high pressure and the correct pressure to which I had filled it. Cocking Twatting thing Anyone got a retro estate with a diesel engine they want to sell - an FB Victor would be nice :-)
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Last Edit: May 7, 2008 11:18:29 GMT by Tim
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LowStandards
Club Retro Rides Member
Bigging Up The Sum Sum Man Since '99
Posts: 2,665
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Me? I wind the window down...
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Tim
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,340
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Me? I wind the window down... me to, now :-) Another nail in the coffin of the sensible modern daily really :-)
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Me? I wind the window down... ah the delights of summer, the overbearing smell of other people's cigarete smoke in the car next to you in the traffic, the persistant banality of summer anthem choooon on someone elses car radio, wasps buzzing in through the window and then a face full of diesel fumes from a stinky old bus... So it sounds like a competant aircon guy could pump my system up easy enough with his choice of refrigerant.
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1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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mercmad
Posted a lot
Flush Hard,it's a long way to McDonalds.
Posts: 1,740
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Your compressor has seized . You can either get the present one rebuilt or swap in a new Sanden . Your present gas will be R12 and it's illegal to replace it. R134A is being phased out too as it happens. Cars retro fitted with R134A will have different filling nozzles ( quick connect type) to prevent anyone from filling with R12 but if your car has the old style service ports....there is a way of getting around all of this nonsence. . Replace your sick compressor and vee belts and receiver /dryer ( a new one comes with oil etc ),rent a vacuum pump and guages and suck all the air out of the system. The recharge the system . Instead of using fridge gas,use LPG. If bucks down,the harrison compressor on some of those GM products is the same unit as fitted to most Mercedes V8's
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Many years ago I changed my driving style to cope with rising fuel prices; I have now reached the stage where I am contemplating keeping my eyes shut in order to lower wind resistance.
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Tim
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,340
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Your compressor has seized . You can either get the present one rebuilt or swap in a new Sanden . Your present gas will be R12 and it's illegal to replace it. R134A is being phased out too as it happens. Cars retro fitted with R134A will have different filling nozzles ( quick connect type) to prevent anyone from filling with R12 but if your car has the old style service ports....there is a way of getting around all of this nonsence. . Replace your sick compressor and vee belts and receiver /dryer ( a new one comes with oil etc ),rent a vacuum pump and guages and suck all the air out of the system. The recharge the system . Instead of using fridge gas,use LPG. If bucks down,the harrison compressor on some of those GM products is the same unit as fitted to most Mercedes V8's Alistair has the gas problem, i have the nacked compressor (it seems)
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Alistair has the gas problem Theres no need to be so personal about it, I just happen to gave been eating more Mexican food this last few weeks is all.
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Last Edit: May 7, 2008 13:51:01 GMT by akku
1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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Tim
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,340
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Alistair has the gas problem Theres no need to be so personal about it, I just happen to gave been eating more Mexican food this last few weeks is all. :-) superb
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lpg is a good refrigerant but unfortunatly it has one let down , ITS HIGHLY FLAMMABLE , lol, i wouldnt like the possibilities of a small leak turning ito a bbq. tim, just a thought but was your system totally empty before you tried to refill it , also did you use a kit from halfrauds? two possibilities are over filled system, condensor fan running flat out and evaporator fan flat out , pressures ok, condensor fan kicks out system goes sky high before fan kicks bback in, OR theres tooo much oil in the ac pump from the halfrauds retro fit system. I'm a city and guilds qualified refrigeration engineer with 20 years in the service industry and have seen many over filled systems putting excessive strain on compressors, i generally work on industrial water chillers now up to 1200 kilowatts of cooling power, cars around 20 kw ish.
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Alistair has the gas problem Theres no need to be so personal about it, I just happen to gave been eating more Mexican food this last few weeks is all. I never noticed when I met you to be honest. I know someone who does car air con and converts older systems and imports. Let me know if you need his details
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205 GTi Mi16
205 XS - Now in filmidget's signature
Clio dci 80
I've found in life if someone is an idiot, they generally stay and idiot.
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Tim
Posted a lot
Posts: 3,340
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lpg is a good refrigerant but unfortunatly it has one let down , ITS HIGHLY FLAMMABLE , lol, I wouldnt like the possibilities of a small leak turning ito a bbq. tim, just a thought but was your system totally empty before you tried to refill it , also did you use a kit from halfrauds? two possibilities are over filled system, condensor fan running flat out and evaporator fan flat out , pressures ok, condensor fan kicks out system goes sky high before fan kicks bback in, OR theres tooo much oil in the ac pump from the halfrauds retro fit system. I'm a city and guilds qualified refrigeration engineer with 20 years in the service industry and have seen many over filled systems putting excessive strain on compressors, I generally work on industrial water chillers now up to 1200 kilowatts of cooling power, cars around 20 kw ish. The system was pressurising nok, and then the compressor went mental and the pressure went really high, then drops to normal, compressor clonks again and it goes sky high, and then straight back to normal i think i've curse word it
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I cant bring myself to drive with the windows up in the summer so aircon would be wasted on me i guess, the merc has quarter lights that swing far enough round to act as air scoops at anything over 10mph so I'm happy, I always feel like I'm driving about in a Macdonalds in me mates audi with the aircon on.
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Volvo back as my main squeeze, more boost and some interior goodies on the way.
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