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Jul 19, 2006 21:50:15 GMT
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I'm trying to stay out of this, because I know banger racers (in fact, I know banger racers that have had cars they're saving for racing stolen off them) and I've just got back from a good night at Arlington. From a banger racing forum though:
'ive just been imformed of what has been written on this forum and ive rang ian and he is totally gobsmacked because he bought the plymouth in good faith a few weeks ago and been building it for that time at his place of work in full view of everyone, ian says he was offered the car by some lads who had seen some of the bangers there lately and that he paid £100 for it and the lads said they would drop off the v5. the sharks are an honest bunch of lads and they would never steel or except a vehicle knowing that it was stolen, ian is absolutely gutted.'
Edit: beaten to it.
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Last Edit: Jul 19, 2006 21:52:12 GMT by angle
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Jul 19, 2006 21:58:51 GMT
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So your not bothered about the banger racing thieves then? Not bothered about the alleged minority bringing your sport into disrepute? Just a bunch of genuinely wronged classic car owners telling the truth that upsets you?
Go to your banger races and watch the thieves trash other people's pride and joy. Don't be disgusted by it or anything...there's nothing anyone can do is there?
This isn't the first time this has happened, and your not the first banger racer to come on here and explain how you're not a thief personally. Next time your cheering and clapping at the latest rarity that some scumbag stole for half-an-hour on the oval don't feel guilty because we were all jolly horrid to you.
...and when Mitchell steals your mexican beetle from your garage remember not to get upset, and remember that when it turns up at the track in it's race livery that it's 'already too late' and that when a photo appears on a banger photo site that you might get accused of 'stealing' a photo of your own car and finally when you dare to get upset about it that some banger racers will get angry that you accused their sport of stealing despite the overwhelming evidence.
Go on, I dare you - arrange a meeting between some of the sports organisers, ban the thieving racers, boycott the offending tracks, introduce some legislation...I bet you don't - that's your shame, yours and all the other whinging racers. Prove me wrong and you'll get my apology.
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tc222
Part of things
Posts: 19
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Jul 19, 2006 22:04:28 GMT
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Alright folks. Firstly i seriously hope this was not the cat that was raced although a lot does tend to point that way. This sorta behaviour really windes me up. I myself am a banger racer, I have NEVER even thought about stealin a car especially not a classic an i don't know of anyone that has. However i know of several drivers now who have purchased rare cars for their scrap value which have LATER turned out to be stolen. All we can do is apologise for this and i'm sure ian will inform the police an it goes back through the chain and we catch the a**holes that did steal it! As for everything else thats been mentioned, i have just purchased an 1963 ford zephyr 6, from a mate, with all documents. After having a look round, the throttle linkage has siezed, the bonnet has a hole in and won't close, there are metal plates layin on the floor as you can literally fall thro the floor there are that many holes. The list is endless so yeh, most cars that i myself an everyone i know race, are well beyond road usage. once again i'm sorry for your loss an hope your car does turn up as these thefts irritate most if not all drivers as much as it does yourselves, however at least you don't have the often false "reputation" that us drivers have cheers! TC
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Jul 19, 2006 22:06:10 GMT
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'ive just been imformed of what has been written on this forum and ive rang ian and he is totally gobsmacked because he bought the plymouth in good faith a few weeks ago and been building it for that time at his place of work in full view of everyone, ian says he was offered the car by some lads who had seen some of the bangers there lately and that he paid £100 for it and the lads said they would drop off the v5. the sharks are an honest bunch of lads and they would never steel or except a vehicle knowing that it was stolen, ian is absolutely gutted.' What's Ian going to do about it then? When the lads didn't bring the V5 didn't he smell a rat? Or did he just race it anyway? The story is a sound one, but not exactly one that absolves him of his responsibility. Ian, perhaps the police could help you trace these lads? Do you feel bad enough to act in a way that would mean this wouldn't happen again to you or someone else?
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Jul 19, 2006 22:09:06 GMT
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Alright folks. Firstly i seriously hope this was not the cat that was raced although a lot does tend to point that way. This sorta behaviour really windes me up. I myself am a banger racer, I have NEVER even thought about stealin a car especially not a classic an i don't know of anyone that has. However i know of several drivers now who have purchased rare cars for their scrap value which have LATER turned out to be stolen. All we can do is apologise for this and i'm sure ian will inform the police an it goes back through the chain and we catch the a**holes that did steal it! As for everything else thats been mentioned, i have just purchased an 1963 ford zephyr 6, from a mate, with all documents. After having a look round, the throttle linkage has siezed, the bonnet has a hole in and won't close, there are metal plates layin on the floor as you can literally fall thro the floor there are that many holes. The list is endless so yeh, most cars that i myself an everyone i know race, are well beyond road usage. once again i'm sorry for your loss an hope your car does turn up as these thefts irritate most if not all drivers as much as it does yourselves, however at least you don't have the often false "reputation" that us drivers have cheers! TC Most responsible banger's post ever. Top marks. I have nothing against banger racing...only the stealing of cars to race and the 'nothing I can do' attitude of the racers who have spoken here so far.
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Jul 19, 2006 22:11:13 GMT
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Wether a car is good or bad, banger racing is a destructive past time, with no real reason for being in the first place. J That's not the point we're trying to make here blownimp, if that were the debate I'd be on the side of the banger racers.
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Jul 19, 2006 22:15:00 GMT
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How can buying a car with no V5 that is clearly worth more that £100 be in good faith? And weeks building it? It was fine in the first place for goodness sake! Well, Badger Bill said earlier in the thread that it was looking pretty tired, and according to a post just made on a banger racing forum by a friend of the racer, when he bought it it was damaged along the passenger side - maybe it had been joyridden or something first? But yeah, £100 is a bit low - although if that's all they wanted for it, even if every banger racer in the country had turned it down they still would have got that for scrap.
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Last Edit: Jul 19, 2006 22:19:10 GMT by angle
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Jul 19, 2006 22:25:02 GMT
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I'm sorry, i will leave my own personal views out of this as they don't really count.
Hope my apologies are accepted
J
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Jul 19, 2006 22:31:22 GMT
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Do you know I promised myself I wouldn't get wound up again...sorry everyone, I'm not being ver administrator-like am I? Seriously, it would be great to see the banger community helping us out here. That's it from me. Good night everyone (including our banger racing members).
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Jul 19, 2006 22:31:39 GMT
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tc222 - I have to echo rmad here; top quality post.
Furthermore, I also have to agree with Blownimp; A group of lads turn up with an obviously rare car that has obviously been well cared for, ask for a hundred quid and don't have a V5...And no suspicion is aroused?
What about "Sorry, lads - don't have the time or space to do it today; I'll have some space in the yard at about 2pm tomorrow." and then calling the police?
Result - thieving traveller scum get caught, a car gets saved and returned to it's righful owner and the banger community as a whole gets positive publicity. If a banger racer used his nous and common sense, and I ended up with my pride and joy back in my garage then I'd be singing his praises from the rooftops; I'd certainly make sure that all the mainstream press knew.
As it has been mentioned previously on here, if the banger community sticks it's collective head in the sand then nobody gets helped, cars keep getting stolen and the community keep getting tarred with the same brush.
If the 'rogue elements' are punished and banned from sanctioned events and the ENTIRE community use some common sense with regards to obtaining vehicles legally then we all benifit; the classic community doesn't have it's cars stolen, the banger community doesn't get lambasted left, right and centre, the criminal element is removed, and we can all sit down for tea and biscuits.
*n
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Top grammar tips! Bought = purchased. Brought = relocated Lose = misplace/opposite of win. Loose = your mum
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Jul 19, 2006 22:41:21 GMT
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Alright folks.............. cheers! TC Welcome, hope you stick around TC. Is there anything you think that can be done?
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Jul 19, 2006 22:53:12 GMT
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tc222 - I have to echo rmad here; top quality post. Furthermore, I also have to agree with Blownimp; A group of lads turn up with an obviously rare car that has obviously been well cared for, ask for a hundred quid and don't have a V5...And no suspicion is aroused? Agreed, & welcome to tc222 There's also the lack of ignition keys (*Ok, so that's a guess but I tend to be cynical ) - fair enough on non runner, but on a drivable car, with presumably current tax (it's a'72 so free & therefore cannot be cashed-in), and the 'owner(s)' presumably doesn't know much about the vehicle and is prepared to accept just £100? I'd be smelling a huge rat....
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Mike D
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,196
Club RR Member Number: 57
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Stolen! 1972 Plymouth wagonMike D
@v8mike
Club Retro Rides Member 57
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Jul 19, 2006 22:54:31 GMT
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this is appauling. It would take very little proactivity from the banger community to stipulate that if you don't have a current V5 for the car in your name then you are NOT allowed to race it. seems easy enough from my view.
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Jul 19, 2006 22:56:28 GMT
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How about banning Banger racing on health and safety grounds. Dangerous to drivers, enviromentally unfriendly, noise pollution, christ the list could go on and on couldnt it. Who out there has a friendly MEP? How about you ban classic cars on the same grounds then? They polute, they are a danger to other road users with their sub-standard safety equipment... There have already been moves in Europe and the US to collect up all the old un-taxed cars and weigh them in... would you like to see that in the UK? Probably better the classic community don't shout too loud... As for danger to drivers - do you want to see rallying, motorbike racing and equestrian sports banned on the same grounds? They are equally dangerous! Oh dear, oh dear.....................it was a very tongue in cheek remark, the last think anybody wants is any more EU interference. Christ Wilco you have, in one fell swoop showed yourself to be a bit of a thicky................................................................................. Now how about you tell us all what your cohorts are actually going to do about this particular case which is an absolute bang on 100% stolen to banger case? Let me guess.....all the honest to goodness "how sad but it werent me guv" banger racers will, once again wring their hands and collectively sigh as they tell everyone how its absolutely impossible to weed out the bad guys and have some sort of regulation. Tell you what the problem really is shall I? There are some serious "faces" in your "sport" who have plenty of money and no morals. Stealing a car to banger is ok because the rest of you dare not blow any whistles.These arent enthusiastic amateurs these are hardened banger pros who no one will go up against. If I'm wrong then i expect to see these people being ratted on very soon. Not a grass? Who is! Depends on what you really care about I suppose. What sums it all up was your immediate defence of your sport yet not one effing word of condolence,disgust or acknowlegement that once again your hobby has made itself look like the seedy, rotten, corrupt "sport" that many people believe it to be.
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If Typhoo put the Tea in Britain who put the c**t in Scunthorpe?
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Jul 19, 2006 23:06:03 GMT
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Just saw the latest update. It actually seems even worse than first suspected! A numpty gets offered a yank tank, no V5 present, for a hundred quid and DOESNT think that anything is sus?!?! For gods sake wake up,nobody with a brain cell would have taken that car in, whatever state it was in, without feeling suspicious. Total b******s. PS: Perhaps the banger community might like to get the phone numbers of their local Plod shops and perhaps, at a very small cost, they could phone them and check whether the car that they have been offered or bought without docs is registered as stolen or not. Would that be too difficult?
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If Typhoo put the Tea in Britain who put the c**t in Scunthorpe?
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Hirst
Posted a lot
This avatar is inaccurate, I've never shaved that closely
Posts: 3,930
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Jul 19, 2006 23:23:35 GMT
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I don't want to get involved in the politics of banger racing, but I would like to know how these stolen cars end up on the banger track? Let me go into it a bit further. We do often hear of the sort of thing where banger racers end up with a car, legally. They then say it is far too good to be scrapped and offer it up to people. I'm certain this does happen so don't think that I'm trying to get at anyone there, I'm sure there's lots of people who just wouldn't let a good car go onto the track and sell them onto somebody wanting a project. But I would like to put this point across. The Datsun was mint, so was the Granada, and the Plymouth seemed to be in a pretty good state too. If the car is really obviously not covered in rot, why on earth do the banger buyers not - a) Suspect something b) Think the car is too good to be bangered and sell it on Surely if you were fortunate enough to end up with an absolutely mint old car on the cheap, either rare or in excellent condition, you would at least consider putting it out to see how much interest it would generate? All three cars would have had buyers. You can't tell me these cars wouldn't have got any interest. When they're stripping them out, do they not think "Hold on, this actually looks quite well looked after, this isn't some neglected old banger"? In my opinion, a banger should be just that. It should be rough, rotten, smoky and beyond saving. I would be very interested to know the state of each car as received by the people who went on to banger it. Even if the panels had been smashed in and all the windows out, you can't get them to rust that fast, surely they'd have noticed that at least? Don't take it the wrong way, I just want to gain more of an insight into this, but surely the buyers would feel something suspect about their puchase afterwards? Edit: By the way I'm not actually directing this at anyone in particular, just want general replies.
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Last Edit: Jul 19, 2006 23:35:12 GMT by Hirst
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Jul 19, 2006 23:30:16 GMT
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So your not bothered about the banger racing thieves then? Not bothered about the alleged minority bringing your sport into disrepute? Just a bunch of genuinely wronged classic car owners telling the truth that upsets you? Go to your banger races and watch the thieves trash other people's pride and joy. Don't be disgusted by it or anything...there's nothing anyone can do is there? This isn't the first time this has happened, and your not the first banger racer to come on here and explain how you're not a thief personally. Next time your cheering and clapping at the latest rarity that some scumbag stole for half-an-hour on the oval don't feel guilty because we were all jolly horrid to you. ...and when Mitchell steals your mexican beetle from your garage remember not to get upset, and remember that when it turns up at the track in it's race livery that it's 'already too late' and that when a photo appears on a banger photo site that you might get accused of 'stealing' a photo of your own car and finally when you dare to get upset about it that some banger racers will get angry that you accused their sport of stealing despite the overwhelming evidence. Go on, I dare you - arrange a meeting between some of the sports organisers, ban the thieving racers, boycott the offending tracks, introduce some legislation...I bet you don't - that's your shame, yours and all the other whinging racers. Prove me wrong and you'll get my apology. Firstly, I very very much doubt anybody will be nicking our Beetle, primarily because the garage it is kept in opens into the house, and in the house is an 11 stone Rottweiler waiting to greet any potential thief with open jaws... you fancy trying it? Now for the rest... all I want to do is what I do already - enjoy myself, responsibly and honestly without harming anybody else. I WAS happy to help other car enthusiasts out with spares, and use this site to enjoy debating and chatting about cars - but honestly, what's the point talking to people like you who expect me to justify that enjoyment by conducting some sort of a moralistic crusade? I understand people's anger about car thefts - I am angry too! But all this sh*t about "genuinely wronged classic car owners telling the truth upsets me" - do me a favour. The truth does not upset me - this curse word about "only 5% of banger drivers are honest", "it would be great if they all got hurt", "banger racing should be banned" gets to me. That doesn't upset me as such, it just makes my blood start to boil and the anger start to build... I am not enjoying feeling like that, so why subject myself to it? I came here to discuss cars, maybe even make a few new friends, not make trouble or get wound up. Why do I have to arrange a meeting, ban the guilty - why can't YOU arrange the meeting? Why does MY choice to race the occasional car legally at my own expense mean that I have to in turn do something about car thefts? What about the promoters who actually do this as a business? Rather than slag me off, have you contacted them? I doubt it - full of hot air and grand ideas until it comes to DOING something yourself no doubt... As for "ban the guilty" - the people who raced the 2 cars in question (one of whom you have just named) - we KNOW they raced the cars, but where is the ACTUAL PROOF they nicked them or knowingly received them as stolen goods? NONE - suggesting otherwise is probably slander? Didn't the police inspect the Datsun and let the bloke go? What the f*** do you expect me or anybody else to do about it if the coppers can go over the car and then let matey carry on home to weigh it in? I have tried my hardest in good faith to explain why some ideas put forward to regulate banger racing would not work. I have never said theft should be tolerated or is either inevitable or acceptable, and I stick by that. I've explained before that I myself have had a cherished car nicked and burned out, I hate car thieves. Your attitude to me would be understandable if I in any way condoned thieving, but I don't and never have. I'd like you to delete my user account now.
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Jul 19, 2006 23:40:25 GMT
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How about you ban classic cars on the same grounds then? They polute, they are a danger to other road users with their sub-standard safety equipment... There have already been moves in Europe and the US to collect up all the old un-taxed cars and weigh them in... would you like to see that in the UK? Probably better the classic community don't shout too loud... As for danger to drivers - do you want to see rallying, motorbike racing and equestrian sports banned on the same grounds? They are equally dangerous! Oh dear, oh dear.....................it was a very tongue in cheek remark, the last think anybody wants is any more EU interference. Christ Wilco you have, in one fell swoop showed yourself to be a bit of a thicky................................................................................. Now how about you tell us all what your cohorts are actually going to do about this particular case which is an absolute bang on 100% stolen to banger case? Let me guess.....all the honest to goodness "how sad but it werent me guv" banger racers will, once again wring their hands and collectively sigh as they tell everyone how its absolutely impossible to weed out the bad guys and have some sort of regulation. Tell you what the problem really is shall I? There are some serious "faces" in your "sport" who have plenty of money and no morals. Stealing a car to banger is ok because the rest of you dare not blow any whistles.These arent enthusiastic amateurs these are hardened banger pros who no one will go up against. If I'm wrong then i expect to see these people being ratted on very soon. Not a grass? Who is! Depends on what you really care about I suppose. What sums it all up was your immediate defence of your sport yet not one effing word of condolence,disgust or acknowlegement that once again your hobby has made itself look like the seedy, rotten, corrupt "sport" that many people believe it to be. Whatever - tongue in cheek at the time, or afterwards when good argument against your opinions has gone up? You can't spell my name right and I'm thick? STFU... I'll save my condolence / disgust / acknowledgement for the emergence of the FACTS, unlike you.
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Jul 19, 2006 23:46:35 GMT
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Hope its not the stolen car.. I can recall quite a few 70's plymouth satellite wagons being raced over the last 15 years. It seems they were a popular choice for US forces in Europe...though many may not have been registered over here. Well its fine asking the banger community to clean its act up...the same should apply to the classic car scene. I know of classic car enthusiasts stealing wrecks for spare and of owners having there cars stolen and the cars being of types that could not be raced. Did the owner of a P4 rover 90 ask for proof of me of the legitimacy of the engine that he bought off me...no...by the way is was a low mileage engine in excellent condition (46,000). Shame the shell was rotten as hell as it had been kept outside untouched for 17 years and was unrepairable (rotten bulkhead plus lots more rot).. It got raced and wrecked and bits sold. MOST BREAKERS.. or scrapmen would never have wasted time with the engine to check it...would have been weighed straight in. PS.. I have also found many classic car fans to be keen on enthusiasm..but lacking technically and do more damage to cars though ignorance ..so don't think many would have been up to the job of taking on the rover as I did and salavaging something useful.
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tc222
Part of things
Posts: 19
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Wooo guys, think few people need to calm down. Its one of these things chances are we're gona need to help each other out. The problem is documents can be lost. I bought a sunny est of my ex headteacher so i can rely on it, however there were no documents. although true it shoud raise suspicion. Not much like this goes on up ere as i'm in middle of lake district however now i know this site i'd be quite willin to have a look around an keep eyes open when certain cars are posted as stolen. However i do agree that a ahndful of drivers do need to use a bit more common sense when purchasin cars. May i just add as i missed it off my original post that we understand how you feel. Banger drivers too have had cars and lorries stolen, some of which have never turned up. As for why people race these cars when they're in such good nick i honestly can't answer. pretty much every car i have used has been fallin to pieces or on is last legs in one way or another. Racings very good fun but why wreck a car if its in good nick an get make a fortune back eiter from the sale or seling parts. But its very much a case of each to thier own. If they wanna race it and they personally bough it legitimatly we can't really stop them. Anywho tis gettin late so i'm off to bed. Night all! TC
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Last Edit: Jul 20, 2006 0:16:53 GMT by tc222
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