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Feb 15, 2022 12:55:55 GMT
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So it looks like they are the bigger HB/HC OHC brakes using the hub and stub axle as well, the steering arms are HA by the looks of it as they have the lock stop hanging off the bottom, this is the smaller brake set up  This is the big brake back plate  Somewhere ive got the dimensions for the crossmember to check for damage and the setting up of the top pivot for caster camber angle with shims, ill see if I can find it and stick some pics up |
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Feb 15, 2022 13:03:41 GMT
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Thanks for the info gtviva. Are the HB/HC calipers the same then?
Info about setting up the shims would be very useful, thanks. I got a schematic of the axle off facebook the other day (strangely enough!) but all info is very welcome.
Ref the 'extra' wheel stud holes - yes very dodgy! barely any metal left on the edge of the holes as well.
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Feb 15, 2022 14:36:37 GMT
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HA used a small girling caliper and disc brakes on the HA was an option up to about 1971, HB/HC small engined cars used a mix of Lockheed & girling calipers then the big engined cars used a different caliper again which was just girling, bear in mind though the hubs are different between small engined cars and the bigger engined cars as the discs mount with a different PCD
Going back to the GT you had can you remember the reg number? just from a nerdy interest point of view!
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Feb 15, 2022 16:00:22 GMT
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Top arm shimming  Cross member dimensions  Can you tell its a slow work day today... |
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,866
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Feb 15, 2022 17:23:07 GMT
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Calipers may be two bolt Type 12 on the early set-up and four bolt Type 14 for the later.
From the work I did on the G15 brakes while back.
12's - 42.5mm
14's - 48mm
16's - 54mm
M16's are MK3.4.5 Cortina and late Escort MK2 - and may work well with those 10" discs - but you would have to check spacings etc. - They would need a bigger M/C and would be where where a decent tandem would work.
ETA - That's a nice set up for Caster and Camber setting
Also Bolts shipped out today so should be with you in the morning.
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Last Edit: Feb 15, 2022 17:24:57 GMT by Darkspeed
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Feb 15, 2022 19:02:25 GMT
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gtviva thats brilliant - do you have the page before the first one as well? That will make setting it up so much easier - there were quite a few shims in the one we took to bits (none in Phils original setup) and I had no idea castor could be set with it. Edit - it would be great to have to correct castor/camber settings that it should have in a std HA as well. Darkspeed - thanks mate, look forward to them. Phil is happy to keep the original brakes at present - they have always worked well so I'll not look for extra work right now. Something to think about in the future though. The bigger calipers are seized anyway so will need a total restoration or replacement. Useful info on the bore sizes - thank you for that.
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glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,317
Club RR Member Number: 64
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Feb 15, 2022 20:17:50 GMT
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I love this place. 👍
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My worst worry about dying is my wife selling my stuff for what I told her it cost...
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Feb 15, 2022 23:58:20 GMT
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Cross member dimensions I'm slightly confused on this, Are the chassis mounting platforms at different heights each side? 4.23 in on left and 4.04 on right? Seems a bit odd? |
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Tonight I stripped the fulcrum arms out of the new lower wishbones, cleaned them up and chased all the threads out. I'll get some little mounts made up at work tomorrow so it can be mounted off the fulcrum mounts on the stands on a flat surface and I can then take measurements from there knowing it will be perfectly level. After that it was more paint, two more coats on the inside of the door. That should be finished now, just the outside to do. Tomorrow I'll start on the insides of the other door.  Not a bad shine for the side no-one sees   At least if it debuts without an interior (which is extremely likely) it will still look good. 676 hours |
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Get a room! Looking good, BPR! |
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Mark, the 4.23 and 4.04 dimensions are the front and rear lower fulcrum positions relative to the chassis mounting plate (which is the datum).
Cracking work as always.
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Proton Jumbuck-deceased :-(
2005 Kia Sorento the parts hauling heap
V8 Humber Hawk
1948 Standard12 pickup SOLD
1953 Pop build (wifey's BIVA build).
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,866
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Are the chassis mounting platforms at different heights each side? 4.23 in on left and 4.04 on right? Seems a bit odd? Front and back. Which may provide an initial Caster setting before the fine adjustment via the shims. ETA Having looked /read a bit further it seems to define an angle for the upper and lower wishbones (took a while to figure out what Fulcrum was a reference to) relative to the mounting pad - not the Caster trail. (it would be back to front) There is not enough pages of the manual there for full appreciation of how the geometry is set - It would be a guess to say that those dimensions set the wishbones parallel to the ground when the chassis angle for the mounts has provided the Caster. If the shims provided all the caster trail then I would say that they built in a small degree anti dive geometry - Need the side elevations for a full determination. |
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Last Edit: Feb 16, 2022 8:36:08 GMT by Darkspeed
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glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,317
Club RR Member Number: 64
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My worst worry about dying is my wife selling my stuff for what I told her it cost...
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Feb 16, 2022 10:03:57 GMT
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Meant in a tongue in cheek, public displays of affection kind of way. Carry on |
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Feb 16, 2022 10:43:36 GMT
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Mark, the 4.23 and 4.04 dimensions are the front and rear lower fulcrum positions relative to the chassis mounting plate (which is the datum). Cracking work as always. Ah, that makes more sense, cheers Paul. So if I set the fulcrum dead level on the bench the top pads should have a tilt down to the front of about 1/4"? |
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Feb 16, 2022 10:53:40 GMT
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Andrew, thanks for the help on this - to clarify - when I set it on the car should the lower wishbone fulcrum be horizontal or should it slope down at the rear by .17 inch?
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Feb 16, 2022 13:01:41 GMT
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gtviva would it be possible to have the whole of the front suspension chapter, pretty please  
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Feb 16, 2022 13:14:39 GMT
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Andrew, thanks for the help on this - to clarify - when I set it on the car should the lower wishbone fulcrum be horizontal or should it slope down at the rear by .17 inch? .19 isnt it? |
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Feb 16, 2022 13:19:05 GMT
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This is the page before, the parts book says you need 3 of the long double hole camber shims per side and the single caster shims as required, it may all be a bit of a wild goose chase as your using HB/HC stub axles which is a different design of cross member so may have completely different geometry to the HA anyhow?  |
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,866
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Feb 16, 2022 14:03:58 GMT
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gtviva - Do you have the Caster figure for the suspension on the Viva? Mark - Need a few more figures in order to get a full understanding of how the geometry is set on the subframe and the relationship with the chassis. Typically on something like the Viva with a front bias and a cast iron engine etc. sat up front the Caster trial would be set low at around 3 degrees positive - It's not a fast car so straight line high speed stability is not paramount and with a manual rack the steering would want to kept light. Need to cater for little old ladies as well as weight lifters. There are two factors that determine The Caster A - the Angle of the subframe in the chassis B - The Angle of the stub axle relative to the subframe Is the stub axle perpendicular to the cross member even though the fulcrums are angled? Is the stub axle perpendicular to the fulcrums Are the wishbones aligned through a plane perpendicular to the Subframe? What would be helpful is a picture of the stub axle end on so the relationship of all the elements can be seen As the book states there is 3 degrees of adjustment available by shimming the upper wishbone fulcrum I would hope that the chassis and subframe in un-shimmed state would give around a 3 degree Caster - that way you can go from 0 - 6 degrees by shims which all the adjustment you would ever want in a FWD - 3-4 being where I would start. ETA As indicated by the observant star over FWD should be FE-RWD
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Last Edit: Feb 16, 2022 15:30:50 GMT by Darkspeed
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