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Feb 16, 2018 16:13:30 GMT
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Quatermass - thanks for that mojo boost as mojo is pretty low right now (for many things, life is not the best at present).
I can get the pop booked in before this goes through & even if it fails I have another 6 months to fix it under the current rules - so I should be ok - but I'm just dying inside for my hobby and for all the other builds that will fail if this happens.
4.12 Reconstructed (restored) classic cars undergoing IVA will not be required to meet the latest MOT standards, as long as the appearance of the vehicle is broadly unchanged and the engine is of the same capacity as that supplied with the vehicle when it was new."
^^^ this bit is such stupidity!!! reconstructed classics don't NEED TO GO THROUGH IVA!!!! The don't know WTF their own rules are even. It's such a sad situation.
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lord13
Part of things
Posts: 537
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The whole thing is stupid, on the one hand I get all in a tizz over one part, only to re-read it and it starts to make sense....then someone else points out a different view on the wording and I get hot under the collar again, It is very clear and completely unclear at the same time if you get my drift, It's 'politician speak', open to interpretation. strangersfaces The 8 point rule does not apply to this car, because out of those 8 points, 5 of them MUST come from the original unmodified chassis or monocoque. . . This pop is definitely without those 5 points, hence the IVA blackpopracing MY confusion stems from the point you made from an earlier post, that a car under going an IVA must 'meet modern car emissions standards'. Now does this mean for the IVA it must meet current manufacturing standards or current MOT standards at the IVA? Because the way I read it is that your pop must meet current MOT standards and therefore emissions standards set out for post 1992 cars, i.e. CO @ 0.3% at idle, and CO @ 0.2 / HC @ 200ppm or less on fast idle. The way we used to get worn carbs through an MOT was to run super lean at the test then turn up the mixture screw after we'd secured a pass. Can you not employ this tactic still? Or, for another idea, instead of forking out all that hard earned on an injection system just to get the pass, cant you just modify an old Bosch K-jet mechanical system to suit? I'm just chucking ideas out here...I've no idea if they'll work. Also your injection system projected costs seem a little high, the megasquirt system comes in at around £1k...again I could be completely wrong. There are probably many many other items needed to fit the kit, set it up etc etc. This pop needs to get through the test, as a benchmark for other builders, to prove it can be done despite everything that the suits throw at us.
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Feb 17, 2018 10:25:16 GMT
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I personally can see where Mark is coming from with his £5k costing for the injection system - you just have to look at the quality of his car / build to know that he won't just throw a system onto the car - it would be something that matched the workmanship & quality of the build - well thought out with everything in the right place - not just for operational reasons but with atheistic's to match the build throughout regardless if it is seen or unseen on the car
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Last Edit: Feb 17, 2018 11:49:18 GMT by Deleted
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Feb 17, 2018 11:34:27 GMT
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The whole situation needs clarification nothing is clear just confusing. We may have to wait to find out what the final wording is to be. One place you can try for clarification Mark is the NSRA I would be very surprised if they don't have something to do with the consolation considering the size of there membership.
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Last Edit: Feb 17, 2018 11:44:58 GMT by peteh1969
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Feb 17, 2018 14:12:30 GMT
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nsra? the club maybe, but not the members.
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,864
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Feb 17, 2018 14:20:26 GMT
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Exactly - IVA cars are considered brand new - so would need to meed current emisssions? Regardless of this - for my car at least - I have a carb fitted. There is no physical room for cats (even if I wanted to fit them - it was a major issue fitting bigger silencers) so I would need to rewire the car for FI, buy an ECU, buy a complete FI system for the engine, fit a new fuel tank & pump and fit new fuel lines. Costs for this? £5,000+ at a conservative guess. But say I wanted to build a period hot rod with a flathead v8 - no way this could ever pass. Or a E type replica - not really 'correct' if it has to have cats & fi is it?? I have spent the last 2 years changing it to fit their rules -and they want to re-write them at 2 months notice!!! Yes - a car with a 16 plate has to meet the emissions in the IVA DOC in 02B Metered Emissions been in there for years which for a new reg is Carry out a BET Test Fast Idle Test (2500 to 3000rpm) CO <= 0.2% HC <= 200ppm Lambda between 0.97 and 1.03 Idle Test (450 to 1500rpm) CO <=0.3% Which is still current and the page has not been revised since 2013. I can see costs approaching £5K for a conversion to EFI - Its a V8 - My 4.5 EFI parts if bought retail would be way over that - Tank, pumps TB's manifolds ECU wiring injectors - when taking 8 off it will be expensive and then cats - It's not impossible but it's going to cost. However we come back to the issue BP had in the first place - If designing with it in mind its not anyway near as difficult. I do disagree that there is no way that old tech could pass - there is a Tesla on its way to Mars with a robot in the drivers seat "DON'T PANIC" - Of course it is possible, if you want it that bad it can be done. Same with an E-Type - There are plenty of period looking engine bays out there making the most of fully programable EFI through injectors hidden in DCOE's - EFI replacements for DCD's Electronic Holleys have been about for years due to California - The yanks have been leading the way in clean emissions for decades. It would not be hard to hide injectors in SU's and fit cats into period silencers - If that's what you want then you just do it. Now, the time period is where you do have a point but personally 12 months warning is reasonable in my view - people neeed a line drawn in the sand before they will actually get motivated and do something. Don't they?
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Feb 17, 2018 14:37:05 GMT
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If it has to be CATS it would be a lot of work, but would a mid 2000s big block injection system from a vortech/ truck engine go on? there must be thousands in US yards that some kind forum dudes could send you. Maybe Grenade could help. and the stock ecu could probably be hacked to squeeze through the test, then go in the bin
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Feb 17, 2018 14:45:12 GMT
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Feb 17, 2018 15:03:25 GMT
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Feb 18, 2018 11:11:47 GMT
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Darkspeed, 12months is way too short. I know literally 90 people building for biva who have older engines that won't pass if this happens. Most are 2 to 4 years away from the test. Legend, I am OK as I will get tested before this possibly happens so for me it does not personally matter. If I did go injection it would be the whole hog with sequential port and full ignition mapping, might as well get the most from it
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Feb 21, 2018 16:11:51 GMT
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I've been reading this thread for a year or so, and had to register simply to join in this convo with this comment!
An often missed aspect of Car and Engine emissions are those emitted at the factory during their manufacture. Large metal parts such as engine and gearbox castings are very heavy users of energy and thus producers of pollution, due to the need to heat metal to melting point. Scrappage also requires metal smelting activities that require further huge amounts of energy. By reusing older parts, Car builders are Recycling in a very clear way and avoid this cycle altogether
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Last Edit: Feb 21, 2018 17:36:21 GMT by spegru
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Feb 21, 2018 17:01:22 GMT
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As this situation seems to be "fluid" at present I am sure it would be best to get a test booked and let them go through the whole car - if it passes "Well Done" if it fails.... they will detail what needs to be done. It may well be the quickest cheapest option for you now.
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Feb 21, 2018 20:27:42 GMT
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Test is days away from being booked
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Feb 21, 2018 20:46:12 GMT
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Excellent! I/(We - I'm sure) all hope it goes well after all the work and effort that you have put in.
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Feb 21, 2018 21:39:37 GMT
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Excellent! I/(We - I'm sure) all hope it goes well after all the work and effort that you have put in. Definitely "we"!
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Feb 21, 2018 23:10:02 GMT
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Test can be booked online now and copies of all docs scanned and uploaded - much simpler Had a chat with DVSA and nearest centre is Leighton Buzzard, otherwise its Bristol or Norwich. Just need to sort out last few receipts & photos and can send off.
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Feb 21, 2018 23:15:31 GMT
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Hot rodders are still good guys, I put a shout out for some pop inner door handles in any condition as I did not want to spoil mine (they don't meet radius requirements). One guy responded with nice handles -and gave them free! He also shipped overnight for free and I should get them tomorrow, Legend! I can smooth these & paint.
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Feb 24, 2018 23:27:01 GMT
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not much happening at present - car is about done and paperwork mostly complete to send off for test. A couple of small jobs left to do - one of which was inner door handles. My originals have a dangerous(??) sharp edge on them, so a shout out on facebook for some spares resulted in a nice stranger donating a pair free of charge These were modified with a rolox wheel and will be powder coated - sharp originals on car and safe smooth ones in my hand.
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vulgalour
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 7,257
Club RR Member Number: 146
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Which bit's sharp again?
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I'm guessing it's because the handles protrude too far off the face of the door card so in a side impact the handle has the potential to make contact with the occupant and cause injury which is why for the past 30 years all interior handles on vehicles have been virtually flush fitting or recessed - so for once BLMC were ahead of the game with fitting flush interior handles on the Maxi / Marina / Allegro 40 + years ago
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