bmw2101
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Jan 31, 2024 17:31:46 GMT
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I have looked about for info and i cant find any good guide about doing it. Has anyone on here done it and can help me threw it?
My car is a r100 non vvt 1800, it has a r65 on it now with the 1100 clutch, it works fine but on a high speed test its spat its oil out and it whines from the diff i think anyway.
I have atm, pg1 flywheel, shafts, box from a mgf, but the box is hydrolic clutch, and i don't know if the cable matches. Also there is the gear linkage business no one seems to have put pics up of what to do with it. Then there is the box mount, i think of making my own maybe as i don't have a mgf one, and there is the linkage under the engine on the sump to add.
Just before i decide to do it, can anyone advise me please.
thanks
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Jan 31, 2024 18:10:44 GMT
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I have looked about for info and i cant find any good guide about doing it. Has anyone on here done it and can help me threw it? My car is a r100 non vvt 1800, it has a r65 on it now with the 1100 clutch, it works fine but on a high speed test its spat its oil out and it whines from the diff i think anyway. I have atm, pg1 flywheel, shafts, box from a mgf, but the box is hydrolic clutch, and i don't know if the cable matches. Also there is the gear linkage business no one seems to have put pics up of what to do with it. Then there is the box mount, i think of making my own maybe as i don't have a mgf one, and there is the linkage under the engine on the sump to add. Just before i decide to do it, can anyone advise me please. thanks Convert the Metro pedal box to hydraulic by using an MGF master cylinder/pedal/pushrod/mounting plate. Making a gearbox mount is daft when a readily available MGF one is a simple bolt on. |
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bmw2101
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Jan 31, 2024 20:33:07 GMT
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Ah i didnt know the MGF master setup would fit! now that makes it easier. I was looking to also buy a box from a mgzr 160, that was cable set up, but the mgf one would be better. i don't like cable clutch at all.
Looking at some pics online of mgf stuff, is it a metal bracket that bolts to the bulkhead in the car and a master cylinder i need? The plate thats in the metro where the cable is, that s the same but i mod it?
the box idea was that isnt there some plates that people use to re align the way the box sits or something as it sits wrong in a metro?
So that would leave the bottom engine steady and the gear linkage to make up.
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Jan 31, 2024 23:11:59 GMT
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Ah i didnt know the MGF master setup would fit! now that makes it easier. I was looking to also buy a box from a mgzr 160, that was cable set up, but the mgf one would be better. i don't like cable clutch at all. Looking at some pics online of mgf stuff, is it a metal bracket that bolts to the bulkhead in the car and a master cylinder i need? The plate thats in the metro where the cable is, that s the same but i mod it? the box idea was that isnt there some plates that people use to re align the way the box sits or something as it sits wrong in a metro? So that would leave the bottom engine steady and the gear linkage to make up. On a Metro the plate bolts between the bulkhead and master cylinder. They're interchangeable between MGF and Metros, but differ due to variations in the clutch and brake activation. Which makes modifying the Metro one easiest, especially if you use an MGF one as a template. I have a complete MGF pedalbox and master cylinders in a box if pictures would help. I would use all of the engine and gearbox mounts and brackets from the MGF. Why make it difficult? I suspect the spacers are from when MGFs were worth too much to break for the bolt in parts. The bottom engine steady bolts onto the engine, so get it and the bar from an MGF. Then you can either make the subframe end, or cut it off the MGF subframe. Again, why make it difficult? I think I've got this too. The simplest way of doing all this is to get it all off a scrap MGF. Other useful bits are the radiator, throttle cable to shorten(now that MPi ones for a Metro are getting hard to find), front brakes, bigger airbox(not on all cars), gear knob, door mirrors, Hydragas displacers, in-tank fuel pump, engine fuel hoses and the electric power-steering column isn't difficult to fit. Four of the steel spare wheels is a cheap and easy way of getting 14" wheels, although you do need to be careful with tyre sizes. It's a pity the front anti-rollbar won't fit a Metro... I haven't modified a FWD PG1 linkage but I believe the procedure is to fit the gear lever, and shorten the metal rods by cutting and welding on the car. |
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bmw2101
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ok, ive noticed they did the pg1 as a cable operated box too, on the zr, would this be an easier route or is the box different in other ways? ive not heard of this done as of yet. With the mgf clutch, do i have the right pedal now? is it the same as in has the hole for the clevis pin. It must be zr gearlinkage by welding? the mgf one is cable? the car now is a r100, 1800 solid cam, speeduino mapped by myself, mgf rad, mgf spare wheels 14", rover 200 wheel trims, and its a good car so far for sure. Have you done the mgf power steering conversion?   |
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If you use the MGF alloy engine arm you will have to cut, rotate and reweld the top stabiliser section as in its original format it will clash with the OS headlamp area, or use the standard metro/100 with the Ralph PG1 spacer. For the PG1 linkage you need the rover200/400/25/45 PG1 selector, bolt in, cut and you the bottom steering UJ from the 200/25 welded to the end the connect it to the gearbox.
MGF EPAS can be fitted, not straight forward though. done 2 in the past (half finished) and currently doing it on my Mk3 diesel van project.
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Last Edit: Feb 3, 2024 12:11:58 GMT by automax
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bmw2101
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thats the bit i don't get, what is the ralph spacer for? does the mgf pg1 box mount move the engine forward or something? its in there now with the r100 engine mount and r65, its close on the front panel but its ok.
If I'm going hydolic clutch, do i need a mgf clutch pedal? i am looking at them on ebay and r100 ones and they look quite different.
thanks for all teh advice
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It's a pair of spacers that realign the drivers side engine mount arm so you can retain the original metro/100 mounting instead of using the alloy MGF one and having to modify that
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Clutch pedal you can either modify the original, modify the MGF pedal or make one out of the pair.
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if you stay cable clutch you retain the Metro cable and use a ZR gearbox mount modified to fit, all depends on what driver side engine mount set up you use. Cable clutch you'll obviously need the ZR gearbox or put the ZR clutch arm into the MGF box.
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bmw2101
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what i don't get over the engine mount thing, the engine is in the car now working with the 1100 mounts, it is a little close on the front panel but not a problem. Why is the 1100 engine further forward than the 1800? I don't mind cutting and welding the arm at some point if it makes it better.
Does the zr cable clutch work directly do you know with out messing about? I hate the cable but it does work, it would me much easier than changing to hydraulic.
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what i don't get over the engine mount thing, the engine is in the car now working with the 1100 mounts, it is a little close on the front panel but not a problem. Why is the 1100 engine further forward than the 1800? I don't mind cutting and welding the arm at some point if it makes it better. Does the zr cable clutch work directly do you know with out messing about? I hate the cable but it does work, it would me much easier than changing to hydraulic. The gearbox and diff were carried over from a bigger car and crammed into a Metro subframe on the cheap. So the engine position being slightly different isn't particularly surprising. As for the clutch actuation, you have to make changes whichever option you take. That's just a matter of deciding which you find easiest; for me bolting together the unmodified, cheap and easily found MGF hydraulics is a better solution than trying to find the cable parts. |
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if you stay cable clutch you retain the Metro cable and use a ZR gearbox mount modified to fit, all depends on what driver side engine mount set up you use. Cable clutch you'll obviously need the ZR gearbox or put the ZR clutch arm into the MGF box. It6 the postion the {G1 gearbox mount moves the engine to. So with the MGF gearbox mount and arm, you either need to use the 1100 engine mount and steel arm with the spacers or the alloy MGF arm and mount. If you use the MGF arm you can either cut off and forget the top steady mount, or cut it off, rotate and reweld (its alloy thought not steel). |
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bmw2101
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Never crossed my mind that the box is bigger and its crammed into the subframe! DOH!
I have found the pg1 i have has the box mount on it, so i need the rubber mount to the subframe arm, and i think somewhere i have the engine side arm too spare. So ill cut the mount off of it and reweld it where it needs to be with the 1100 type mount.
The mgf box i have, i have no idea of the ratios, i hear like the zr160 had a close ratio box, is it much different really?
The only other one then is the speedo cable to sort.
thanks for all the help
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Never crossed my mind that the box is bigger and its crammed into the subframe! DOH! I have found the pg1 i have has the box mount on it, so i need the rubber mount to the subframe arm, and i think somewhere i have the engine side arm too spare. So ill cut the mount off of it and reweld it where it needs to be with the 1100 type mount. The mgf box i have, i have no idea of the ratios, i hear like the zr160 had a close ratio box, is it much different really? Are you sure you want a close ratio gearbox in a roadcar? Low gearing is only worth it to make up for a lack of power. For instance a VVC engine on an 1100 R100 gearbox means that first is only useful in stop/start traffic, and full power in second needs the car to be already moving. Similarly, a 3.0l Capri with a 2.0l diff(which wakes up a 2.8i) is actually slower in the 1/4 mile and ruins motorway cruising. It doesn't do anything useful to the fuel economy either. My 525 with a direct drive fifth gear would have been better as a four speed with bigger gaps between 2/3/4.... |
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Ratios depend on what you're using it for really. Anything over 120 is a bit liary in a Metro. I've got on geared for around 142, but there's a load of bespoke parts on that just to make it driveable at those speeds.
B-road blaster, I'd say the MGF ratios (C6 of the top of my head) are the best. One of my track cars I have multiple gearboxes for with petrol and diesel ratios as that's going to end up doing the Hot Hatch championship next year so I'll have a choice of gearbox for different tracks. For the speedo you need lower half from the PG1 with a carb metro upper half. But then there's different drive pinions so it'll inevitably be miles out anyway
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bmw2101
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oh right ok, so thats interesting also, my rally bmw rally car had a m44 in it at one point, with a bmw box. I thought from short ratio would have been like with the bmw box, it was good, but first was short so you could pull a trailer from a standstill, second close by, and a massive gap to third. Now then i had modded a is200 6 speed box, and first was a bit longer but the gears where all just spread out evenly. Both boxes are direct fifth gears.
I'm in two minds what to do now, the pg1 is a fair bit heavier than the r65, I'm not worried about that at all, but its the stronger box. To fit it, its not about the money side of it, its partly time outside in this weather, and i want it to work 100% so things like the speedo must work.
The r65 in the car now, i don't know if it would have been up to the job, but it is whining, the clutch is 1100 and it is too small. I could get a flywheel from a 1400, new clutch, and another R65, but finding a good one?
When i put the engine in i put the mgf brakes too, i put new discs and new mintex road type pads. Used ate super blue 200, first time the brakes got hot, they are no good. So pad wise, ds2500? Not really fast road but it does need to stop.
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Look at R65 ratio's. R65 aren't as bad as people make out. If you get an R65U box it has bigger bearings and can generally take a fair bit of abuse. Gearbox out of an old lady owner 25 would be perfect. Yes, they don't last too long when bolt up to a 1.8k turbo but the torque band on the VVC is higher up the rev range so doesn't generally harm a GOOD R65U. 216 K-series flywheel enables you to bolt up the larger clutch, too.
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bmw2101
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The r65 in the car works well i think as it is, just its whining in the gears, when i put the engine in, i think it was low on oil, i never checked it so the first run up the road in it damaged it. it hasnt got any worse, but it spat its oil out the other day, but still sounds the same. Someone told me i may h ave just over filled it.
I didnt know how involved it was to fit a pg1, so i may just look out for a good r65. I could take mine out and i could put bearings in it, but it would be the first time ive done one, ive only ever had a classic mini box apart.
I use the car most sundays, i goto the local car meetings with my brother DarrenW, its not the same going in a road car so it being off the road for ages is not ideal.
I do need to sort the handling out a bit, its too soft on the rear, I'm hoping sending the units off to be regassed will sort it. I do really like the way the car rides with the linked units, i really don't want to individualise the car.
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Feb 10, 2024 15:51:10 GMT
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Rear ARB will help the rear end feel no end. R65's are a piece of you-know-what to rebuild.
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