andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,220
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Dec 16, 2023 17:17:15 GMT
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Need to re-wire my Land Rover Series 3 Lightweight, see here for why, page 3 to avoid all the chatter! I can get an Autosparks loom for my Landy, but it's over £400, a civilian type loom is around £275, so wondering if I could cut costs and DIY it? Whichever Autosparks loom I use, I'll have to modify it for the V8, rad fans and electric fuel pump, which will sort of negate the reasons for buying an off the shelf one! If I leave the hazard flasher out (It's pre 1986), the wiring should be pretty simple with just charging, lights, indicators, wipers, and heater. The engine ignition, rad fans, fuel pump, front and rear fogs and air horn added to the original loom. Some questions: Please recommend a crimp tool for un-insulated Lucar terminals. Anyone got a list of current draws for the various components? Had a suggestion for wiring marking if using a limited range of wire colours, use yellow heat-shrink on each end of a wire, before shrinking it, write a description of the wire on the heat-shrink, once shrunk you should be able to read it...anyone tried this? Any other ideas are gratefully accepted. |
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brachunky
Scotland
Posts: 1,339 
Club RR Member Number: 72
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Dec 16, 2023 17:48:39 GMT
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Try use as much thin wall wiring as you can as it will really reduce the "girth" of the loom. Another idea I have seen to identify same colour wires are those little numbered bands, I would imagine very similar in size to what is fitted to a pigeons foot.
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briang
Part of things
Posts: 83
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Dec 16, 2023 21:55:47 GMT
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As above for thin wall wire. Why use a limited range of colours when you can buy wire by the metre? If you wire it using the O/E colours it will be easier for the next owner... buy the terminal covers too.
I've been using one of these to crimp the terminals on :-https://www.autosparks.co.uk/electrical-components/wiring-tools/heavy-duty-ratchet-action-non-insulated-terminal-crimping-tool
Brian.
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Rich
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,337
Club RR Member Number: 160
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Re-Wiring a Land Rover Series 3Rich
@foxmcintyre
Club Retro Rides Member 160
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Don’t not install hazard lights. They are a simple circuit if you use something like an MGB switch and you never know when and if you’ll need them.
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Dec 17, 2023 10:42:25 GMT
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In my experience of landrover wiring if I was in charge of the budget I would not hesitate to bin everything in the cab and get a fresh loom, I've spent months chasing issues on these bloody things.
You don't necessarily need a full vehicle loom, the main bulk is inside, which then connects to a chassis loom and engine bay and front end.
Bin any lucas bullets and use a proper sealed connector.
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andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,220
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Dec 17, 2023 16:48:27 GMT
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In my experience of landrover wiring if I was in charge of the budget I would not hesitate to bin everything in the cab and get a fresh loom, I've spent months chasing issues on these bloody things.     Oh yes, I'll be binning it all! Interested in what you say about Lucas Bullets, was thinking about using them because it's really easy to make common connections for multiple feeds and they look "period". I've used them in the past on other old British cars and it's been very successful. I do have a proper Bullet crimp tool which seems to get good crimps. Never had much luck with the various types of multi-connectors on the market, maybe because I haven't invested in a tool for them, also find them a bit bulky, which can be a problem in tight spaces. I know if I try to do every wire in the correct colour, it'll be a logistical nightmare ordering all the wire in the right spec, length etc. and it'll push the price up. I'll also end up short on a particular colour and use something else in it's place. Might as well just admit it won't work and use a different system. Think I only need 2 sizes of wire which means I can buy a roll if I stick to one colour on the most used size. |
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Dec 17, 2023 20:40:19 GMT
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you can do it all in a single colour but you will need to number each circuit and mark the wires accordingly, ferrari used to do it like this with numbered rubber rings on each cable, trouble is the rotted and dropped off....
Today you can get machines to print sleeves. For something this simple a cheap durable option is to buy a selection of coloured shrink wrap and use that to code each cable.
I've found the bullet connectors are fine if kept dry and pushed in properly.
On the cooling front the bypass circuit usually goes out of the heads into the manifold, through the heater then back to the bottom hose, putting it in the top hose means you are dragging all the coolant in the radiator back through the engine. This will give a very slow warm up and may even be artificialy cooling the thermostat.
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jimi
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,224
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Dec 17, 2023 21:12:52 GMT
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Using sleeves/id tags etc to mark one colour wiring is a good idea and it's easy enough to get robust cable markers, there's some really good colour coded number tags available that will last as long as the car, the beauty of them is if the numbers are illegible, you can still work it out from the colours.
Where these systems fall down is when you need to break into or repair a harness somewhere other than the ends, then you have trouble identifying the wires. That problem doesn't arise if you use multi-colour wires (with trace colours).
Single colour wiring is often down to cost/availability.
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Black is not a colour ! .... Its the absence of colour
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andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,220
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Dec 17, 2023 22:47:51 GMT
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Now thinking maybe using the 5 basic colours and using permanent markers to add the trace.....?
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jimi
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,224
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Dec 17, 2023 23:05:41 GMT
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Now thinking maybe using the 5 basic colours and using permanent markers to add the trace.....? Using the basic colours is a reasonable (and cheaper) compromise, I wouldn't bother with permanent markers (they are not as permanent as you think) I would use this type of number marker  not expensive and available for different wire diameters e.g. LINKY |
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Black is not a colour ! .... Its the absence of colour
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Dec 20, 2023 22:55:53 GMT
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Unless the wiring is badly damaged/burned rewiring seems a bit extreme, can't you just fix the issues with what you have?
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LowStandards
Club Retro Rides Member
Club Retro Rides Member 231
Posts: 2,716
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I wired my car using a single colour for each seperate circuit. I then bought a £30 label printer and some clear heatshrink and labelled the ends of each wire with exactly what it did You'll never have an issue that way and you'll only need about 5 colours Have a really bad picture, but you get the idea. The grey wire powers the coil and dizzy, it's labelled 'C1 Ign', so I know it's Circuit or fuse 1 and it goes to the ignition. Even I can't get that wrong  |
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Dec 21, 2023 10:04:12 GMT
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i have done the engine bay of my R100 and my bmw rally car for after market ecus, i am lucky that where i work has lots of excess cable. I would buy a real of 7 core, and split it, that will give you 7 different colours to play with. But i would also use 32 gauge wire, as in trailer wire, the thinner stuff is good, but i found it harder to crimp, harder to work with, and from what the lekkies say at work much less reliable. I would get one of the dymo label machines, and some of this CLICK HERE
edit: we have one in work, just saw how expencive they are! But there is nothing to stop you writing a small label on a cheap machine that uses the tape, then using clear heat shrink to hold it on. connectors, i really don't like the normal crimping connectors that you see everywhere, at work ive been to a few brake downs where a wire is off where someone hasnt crimped it right, so i use the type ill link with the tool ill link CLICK HEREbig clive on youtube said these are really good for the price. these crimped lucars this type of coveri also wouldnt worry about it looking too period, it would be a nice touch but when sat at the side of the road with out your hazards you wont really care. I covered my wiring loom in this stuff CLICK HEREcomes in different sizes, the pic on amazon dosnt do it justice, its really good. plus if you need to mod or change the loom it comes off so you can get a wire on. i know some of what i say is different to what everyone else is, but thats just what i have found. Oh also all the things on ali express ive ordered, and there must be over 500 now have always come. good luck, its a big job! |
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Last Edit: Dec 21, 2023 11:06:38 GMT by bmw2101
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andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,220
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Dec 22, 2023 10:18:37 GMT
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Unless the wiring is badly damaged/burned rewiring seems a bit extreme, can't you just fix the issues with what you have? I have replaced one loom with a better 2nd hand one in the past. Not possible with this one I'm afraid, see the pictures and it's a military (or what's left of it!) with wiring for stuff like Infrared Headlamps and convoy lighting. Which will make it much harder to re-wire, esp. because I don't have any of that stuff fitted. |
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andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,220
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Dec 22, 2023 10:20:22 GMT
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Is this accurate? It's for a classic Mini, but should apply to a Series Landy.
Side Lights Front and Rear 2amps
Dip Beam Headlights 9.16amps (55w Halogen Bulbs)
Main Beam / Flash Headlights 9.16amps (60w 10amps)
Indicators One Side 3.5amps
Hazard Lights 7amps
Stop Lights 3.5amps
Reverse Lights 2.5amps
Heated Rear Screen 10-20amps depending on the element
Dash Lights on Gauges and Indicator lights 2-3amps (Depending on auxillary gauges if fitted
Interior light 0.4amps (5w Festoon) 0.8amps (10w Festoon)
Horn single 10amps
Heater Blower 6amps slow 10amps fast
Ignition Coil 12v 4amps
Cigarette Lighter 10-12amps
Wiper Motor Lucas 14w 1.5amps but stalled amps (frozen on screen/ seized wheel boxes,dry cable 4-6 times amps)
Number Plate Lamps 0.5amps
Spotlights (55w Bulbs) 4.5amps each
Normal Car Radio 3amps
Washer Pump 1.5amp but when rubber impeller swells 5amps on start
Parasitic Drain Immobiliser/Alarm <150-300mA depending on model of system
Starter Solenoid 10-12amps
Facet fuel pump (for carbs) 2amps
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Dec 22, 2023 17:05:31 GMT
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Now thinking maybe using the 5 basic colours and using permanent markers to add the trace.....? Using the basic colours is a reasonable (and cheaper) compromise, I wouldn't bother with permanent markers (they are not as permanent as you think) I would use this type of number marker not expensive and available for different wire diameters e.g. LINKYI'd second the few basic colours and these numbers, I've used a few different types at work and these have been the most likely to still be legible after years. Labels under clear heat shrink are second choice but only really work on thick cables. I deal with all the same colour and poor/no numbering at work, this bearable if you have drawings. At home however I continue my colour blind dads habit of using whatever colour is at hand from my recycled car looms. Both these have contributed to my hair loss and make me question my life choices. Just on Wednesday there a colleague ask where my radio was as I was talking away to no-one, I had to confess I was just explaining the wiring to myself as I wired an "all the wires are black and un-labelled" system up. Single colour systems cause madness. |
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jimi
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,224
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Dec 22, 2023 17:22:05 GMT
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I deal with all the same colour and poor/no numbering at work, this bearable if you have drawings...... Single colour systems cause madness. I agree 100% and the hair loss  I had over 30 years dealing with that kind of thing offshore, often with no drawings. My opinion of single colour wiring is pretty much the same as yours 👍 |
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Black is not a colour ! .... Its the absence of colour
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andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,220
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Dec 22, 2023 19:43:55 GMT
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Too late for this, you're on Retro rides.  |
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Last Edit: Dec 27, 2023 17:32:18 GMT by Rich
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Dec 27, 2023 16:22:16 GMT
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Hi, Have a look at this for an approach to a re-wire (I've done similar) It starts at 32 mins for 30 mins.
Colin
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andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,220
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Thanks, some interesting stuff and some very interesting stuff!
I think I'd at least spray the yogurt pot black! Not a fan of soldering, mainly 'cos I can never get a reliable joint!
Anyway, haven't given up. Spent Christmas ordering wire and stuff instead of watching TV. Now waiting for it to arrive and also a dry day. It's been raining almost non stop here in the Upper Dulais Valley, so that's brought out the depressive side of my Maniac Depression and I haven't had the MoJo to go out and improve the brakes and clutch (car isn't under cover).
Have ordered mostly the correct colour (and trace) wire, just waiting for it to arrive. Will also re-check the temperature gauge accuracy, I fear my original testing method may not have been that good! And again, it's the waiting for parts (new thermometer) that delays.
I'll use coloured heat shrink to mark the few wires I haven't got in the correct colour, It'll mean they may be a bit bigger than needed in amp capacity, but that's no bad thing.
And the lack of mojo also meant not thinking clearly, so I fried one of the new switches with a LED in the toggle! Not a big deal, think it was about £1.95, but just one of those things that put a real downer on your psyche.
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