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Feb 16, 2023 18:45:10 GMT
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Where the actual term Hot Rod comes from, I don't know.
But in the beginning of Hot Rodding, there was a lot of overlap with horse racing.
For example, a Souped Up engine ( a term that is still used a lot ) comes from doping race horses to make them run faster.
So I'd probably look in that direction first...
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Feb 16, 2023 18:50:03 GMT
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Where the actual term Hot Rod comes from, I don't know. But in the beginning of Hot Rodding, there was a lot of overlap with horse racing. For example, a Souped Up engine ( a term that is still used a lot ) comes from doping race horses to make them run faster. So I'd probably look in that direction first... Well I'm not suggesting anyone should, but if you got a red hot rod and poked a horse with it, I'm sure it'd go faster🤔 |
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Seth
South East
MorrisOxford TriumphMirald HillmanMinx BorgwardIsabellaCombi
Posts: 15,543
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Feb 16, 2023 18:51:16 GMT
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While you can 'hot rod' anything, not everything can be a hot rod. I was going to write that but you saved me the trouble. Difference between a verb and a noun. |
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Follow your dreams or you might as well be a vegetable. |
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Feb 16, 2023 18:52:44 GMT
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"Well I'm not suggesting anyone should, but if you got a red hot rod and poked a horse with it, I'm sure it'd go faster🤔" Yep, I've heard many theories on the origin of the term (some very unlikely and told by someone with an amazing ability to keep a straight face...)  |
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braaap
Posted a lot
Posts: 2,751
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Feb 19, 2023 10:25:46 GMT
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Thank You for taking the time to reply here. I must say I am not the biggest hot rod fan, but there are some cars I really liked the moment I saw them, I will show them in this thread, but it kind of opens some more questions. As I understand the whole hot rod thing started mostly with old fords, that were plentily available in the US, like these:        It wasn't intended, but it seems I'm a 34 ford fan. But all these seem to be restored / built to a very high standard? I also like potentially cheaper builds like this 38 austin with sierra technics, which I really would love to own:    And I love this photo and the idea that this was really taken in the 50s or 60s, so should be a tradititional hot rod?!  But then there seems ot be another category for hot rods, maybe high end rods? The base cars were probably not the cheapest when new and seeing them being treated the hot rod way makes them really adorable to ME, who can not be excited from cars that just shout in Your face, that the owner is richer than You, like all these new super sport cars or luxury limos. I don't care for that. But I love the following cars:
    And then there is something even more different. Surely not cheap to built either but more of a mexican rod? A mix of hot rod approach and latin lowriderism or what ever that may be called?    |
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Feb 19, 2023 12:03:24 GMT
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And then there is something even more different. Surely not cheap to built either but more of a mexican rod? A mix of hot rod approach and latin lowriderism or what ever that may be called? These are lowrider bombs as is this: Which is a whole sub style of Lowrider, usually based on late 30's Chevys, but there are also Plymouth, Dodge, Studerbaker, Cadillac etc. bomb lowriders around. Traditionally they should have a straight six motor and hydraulic suspension (utilising aero parts if you want to be super true to the spirit of it all). There is also this weird middle ground between these lowrider bombs and custom cars, that places like Deadend Magazine seem to occupy, sometimes leaning towards the lowrider style, some times the more custom style. The red 36 Chevy at the end of this video is very much a custom build, but has enough lowrider in it that it is at a lowrider show. This is increasingly my sweet spot. Although I'd still love a fully trad bomb 38 Chevy on artillery wheels. This is a very high end hot rod build. It is build by Rydell's Toy Shop and Rad Rides by Troy and is a 1935 Chevy Phaeton which is a very rare car, even in its time, it is also a winner of Americas Most Beautiful Roadster. That's my picture of it. The queue behind is to meet Troy Trepanier. |
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,961
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Feb 19, 2023 12:19:09 GMT
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Apart from the bomb mentioned I'd say all of those you've posted are Street Rods. The emphasis is on the finished look and style.
The main "thing" with the early hot rods was they were meant to go as fast as possible, so how they looked was a secondary "symptom" rather than a primary concern. They pretty quickly became about speed AND looks and then some just cared about how it looks, some just cared about speed and there was a whole Mish mash in-between.
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Feb 19, 2023 12:27:22 GMT
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The main "thing" with the early hot rods was they were meant to go as fast as possible, so how they looked was a secondary "symptom" rather than a primary concern. in the beginning they are basically specials, but with a bit less custom bodywork. |
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Feb 19, 2023 14:01:54 GMT
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Apart from the bomb mentioned I'd say all of those you've posted are Street Rods. The emphasis is on the finished look and style. The main "thing" with the early hot rods was they were meant to go as fast as possible, so how they looked was a secondary "symptom" rather than a primary concern. They pretty quickly became about speed AND looks and then some just cared about how it looks, some just cared about speed and there was a whole Mish mash in-between. Which kinda gives the original American "hotrod" (whatever that may be) the same ancestry and ethos of the British "Cafe Racer" ie, turning something slow and cheap into something quick and desirable on a minimal budget. In Britain the cafe racer theme applied mainly to motorcycles because cars, even pre-war Austin 7s, were beyond the reach of cash strapped British youth in the 50s, but the base premise is the same. Also, us Brits never had that huge pool of flathead V8s lying around for pennies in scrapyards everywhere.
Of course, the 2 styles started to diverge about 5 minutes after being conceptualised, but that's the fun of it!
Whilst I can understand a desire for "Purity of concept" on behalf of the VHRA, it's increasingly difficult and expensive to build something to these specs. The Pre-64 (or pre 60, or pre 49) stuff just isn' there and certainly isn't cheap anymore, whilst more modern bits ARE cheaper and usually better too. The hotrod concept embraces (almost embodies) individuality. I don't think we should be saying your car isn't a "Hotrod" because you've used comfortable 80s seats and modern radial tyres. Let aone (perish the thought) a more 90s drivetrain with injection and turbocharging.
The movement evolves with the passage of time and the resulting cars evolve in parallel.
So what I guess i'm really saying is that the ideals of the VHRA are fine, but they belong in a sub category we may as well call "Traditional" or "Trad Rod" rather than claiming the all encompassing term of "Hotrod" for themselves and leaving all the rest of us out in the cold!
Steve
PS, I largely build things I suppose you'd define as "Restomods", with 70s shapes wedded to the most modern and powerful mechanicals I can afford. Ive never built (or wanted to build) a "Hotrod", let alone a "Trad rod" so I have no axe to grind!
PPS, I ve just agreed to buy THIS '74 Triumph 2000 Estate, the plan involves a turbo'd 2JZ, autobox and BMW LSD so about a 12 sec street sleeper!
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andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,220
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Feb 19, 2023 18:22:08 GMT
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This  is a Hot Rod. |
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,790
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Feb 19, 2023 20:40:21 GMT
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Whilst I can understand a desire for "Purity of concept" on behalf of the VHRA, it's increasingly difficult and expensive to build something to these specs. The Pre-64 (or pre 60, or pre 49) stuff just isn' there and certainly isn't cheap anymore, whilst more modern bits ARE cheaper and usually better too.
I would argue that ‘traditional hotrod’ base material is cheaper and more available over here than it’s ever been, which is why it’s had a huge upsurge in popularity recently. 20 years ago you were billy-big-plums if you had a real deal american model hotrod, but years of good exchange rates and lots of importing has swung the balance the other way. Model As especially are comparatively cheap- easily cheaper than a mk1 or mk2 escort nowadays. You can get a reasonably up and together sedan to start rodding for 8-10k. If you’re buying a non runner or pile of parts it’s considerably less. |
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Feb 19, 2023 21:59:06 GMT
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Something else about Trad Hot Rods and the UK that I think needs to be mentioned...
The Ca. based Trad Hot Rod group (or club) The Shifters like to pretend they were solely responsible for bringing Trad Hot Rods back.
They weren't...
I've seen Trad Hot Rods at cars shows before we were subjected to all of their self promotion, and long before that I read about the UK based club The Low Flyers.
Credit where credit is due...
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,790
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Feb 19, 2023 22:23:37 GMT
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Something else about Trad Hot Rods and the UK that I think needs to be mentioned... The Ca. based Trad Hot Rod group (or club) The Shifters like to pretend they were solely responsible for bringing Trad Hot Rods back. They weren't... I've seen Trad Hot Rods at cars shows before we were subjected to all of their self promotion, and long before that I read about the UK based club The Low Flyers. Credit where credit is due... Very true. The original low flyers was about ‘86-‘88. WAY before the popular resurgence of such things. Americans like to make out they invented everything, but Aaron kahan from the shifters has freely credited the low flyers as being massively influential to them and what they did. I *think* (if the source that told me is accurate) I have a low flyers grille shell hung on my wall- a sectioned 34 commercial shell that lived on a T roadster. |
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I always find this a challenging debate... I love traditional USA "hot rods", the cut down 30s motors drawing from an assortment of what would generally be military surplus(flathead V8/bomber seat etc), skinny steels & crossplies... equally I love a street rod, more cultured/refined and in truth a little more usable...be that US metal based, or traditional UK sit up & beg Ford Pop... or even(whisper it, a repro fibreglass body😬). I fear the rather puritanical view pursued by some, if just one part of the vehicle isn't period correct is a little sad... and while the hobby comes under increasing legislative pressure such divisive attitudes are counter productive. Also, I can cope with non - contact oval racing using the term Hot Rod😁 Locally, 70s built street rod(but this is its latest incarnation, think its been yellow, green along the way) ... Rover V8 powered.   |
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2014 - Audi A6 Avant 3.0Tdi Quattro
1958 - Chevrolet Apache Panel Truck
1959 - Plymouth Custom Suburban
1952 - Chevrolet 2dr Hardtop
1985 - Ford Econoline E350 Quadravan
2009 - Ovlov V70 2.5T
1970 - Cortina Mk2 Estate
2007 - Fiat Ducato LWB 120Multijet
2014 - Honda Civic 2.2 CTDi ES
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Feb 20, 2023 10:56:23 GMT
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Traditional hot rodder here checking in with a few of his own, often skewed, opinions...
First the Ford thing. In the early 20's, every other car on the road was a Ford. Therefore cheap and plentiful when it came to modifying for racing. And light. For a cheap car, Henry used quality materials to create a car half the weight of some of his competitors. Modifying anything depression-era would have entailed much ingenuity on limited to zero funds. Going with the herd would have been less costly than attempting to make an off brand car go faster.
Couple of other explanations as to the origin of "hot rod". In the days of babbit, enthusiastic driving might lead to overheating and the lead melting out of the connecting rod. Knockity, knock-knock for a hot rod. Also in the early days of recording speeds on the salt flats there were only classes for open cars - or roadsters. Hot Roadster shortened to Hot Rod? Whatever the explanation it's pretty much a postwar term.
Anyway, as has been noted, most cars were modified for speed as the primary motivator. The look came from ditching weight, like bumpers and superfulous fenders. The rake came from a search for higher gearing. A taller tyre swap being easier than an axle strip and rebuild. Paint and chrome is just a few thou of expense that does nothing to make it go faster... That came later for most, when 'hotrod' was a derogatory term, and streetrod was more acceptable. For every shiny car in period pictures, there'd have been a few hundred still wearing the worn factory paint. A modified Model A would have only been 5-10 years old at the time.
Each to their own, but I like my sidevalve fours, non-synchro three speeds, crossplies and mechanical brakes. And I've sold my flathead powered T roadster. So I've therefore blown my own argument out of the water as most of my cars are pre-war builds, and only a couple are open top.
So I'm a traditional GOW jobber at best. I'll check back when I've finished my next hotrod...
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Last Edit: Feb 20, 2023 10:58:54 GMT by hotrodfil
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Feb 20, 2023 11:00:37 GMT
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For a cheap car, Henry used quality materials to create a car half the weight of some of his competitors. That is interesting, I guess why specials ended up rebodied and hot rods ended up just ditching weight (with the obvious cost thing too) |
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Feb 20, 2023 15:50:21 GMT
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I would argue that ‘traditional hotrod’ base material is cheaper and more available over here than it’s ever been, which is why it’s had a huge upsurge in popularity recently.... If you’re buying a non runner or pile of parts it’s considerably less. I concur.  |
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andyborris
Posted a lot
Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose.
Posts: 2,220
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Feb 20, 2023 18:07:09 GMT
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Feb 20, 2023 18:38:23 GMT
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I’ll just park Charlie Ryan singing from 1955 here.
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74 Mk1 Escort 1360, 1971 Vauxhall Victor SL2000 Estate.
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Feb 20, 2023 20:53:40 GMT
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Whilst I can understand a desire for "Purity of concept" on behalf of the VHRA, it's increasingly difficult and expensive to build something to these specs. The Pre-64 (or pre 60, or pre 49) stuff just isn' there and certainly isn't cheap anymore, whilst more modern bits ARE cheaper and usually better too.
I would argue that ‘traditional hotrod’ base material is cheaper and more available over here than it’s ever been, which is why it’s had a huge upsurge in popularity recently. 20 years ago you were billy-big-plums if you had a real deal american model hotrod, but years of good exchange rates and lots of importing has swung the balance the other way. Model As especially are comparatively cheap- easily cheaper than a mk1 or mk2 escort nowadays. You can get a reasonably up and together sedan to start rodding for 8-10k. If you’re buying a non runner or pile of parts it’s considerably less. Everything is relative! £8-10k is indeed cheaper than an up together Escort, (TBF, other 70s cars are available for less) it's still way over any base budget i'd be able to afford! The Triumph estate body is setting me back £500 and a whole donor car (Lexus GS300) can be had on ebay today for less than £2k (choice of 2 curently) Add on £700 for a turbo kit and a couple of k for paint, the labour is free, you get a finished product that is less than £6k! Sure i've glossed over a load of details that will probably cost me another few quid here and there, suspension, brakes, diff etc. Even trim clips are expensive (£200 ish) if you need a whole car's worth. It STILL don't add up to the base price of a model A!
The shine runners of the 30s and the returned GIs (those who were lucky enough to return) of the late 40s did what they could with what they could get CHEAP! And many of them did a dam fine job! I'm just doing the same thing 80 years later, going fast on a budget! The car may not look the same, but the underlying ethos is identical! Nobody will (I hope) ever mistake my car for a "hotrod" even though, in the purest sense, that's what it is! I'll settle for "Restomod" though and wear it with pride!
Steve
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Last Edit: Feb 20, 2023 21:00:25 GMT by carledo
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