teaboy
Posted a lot
Make tea, not war.
Posts: 1,911
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Nov 24, 2022 23:37:55 GMT
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I've been looking at these. I found this one at StakesysIt is £289.00  Then after more looking I found this at Metz This is currently on offer at £165.00  Is it me or do these look like the exact same machine, apart from the colours and badging? Do you think they are the same and is there any reason why the expensive one would be a better buy? Thanks. |
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I have been looking for a used one to buy recently, and it seems there are even cheaper options on Ebay.
Once again, the old term “buyer beware” springs to mind.
Often the same item is available under different badges/brands.
Also, in my case currently I only need one to make up a hood for the FRANKENTRACTOR but previously made a few small swaged panels for the fake doors the Rezin Rockit will be getting. So my needs are limited, and in that lies another question, will a decent tool inspire me to make more complex, quality parts or be a waste.
If you can inspect both tools you would have a better idea.
I got the feeling that one company is making a lot more money than others.
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Also, in my case currently I only need one to make up a hood for the FRANKENTRACTOR but previously made a few small swaged panels for the fake doors the Rezin Rockit will be getting. So my needs are limited, and in that lies another question, will a decent tool inspire me to make more complex, quality parts or be a waste. Those tools are meant for edging panels as they don't have a deep throat, but ought to be reasonably rigid. This means a good result ought to be reasonably easy to produce. You've seen the plate type I have, which does have a much deeper reach but without some extra strengthening is very flexible. That means getting a deep consistent bead, or even a straight one takes a lot of luck. And some *^&$%@{#]£?~ ##nt stole the angle I had put aside to make it slightly more useful. To be properly useful for larger panels requires the addition of a variable speed motor. |
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pptom
Part of things
Posts: 469 
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As far as I'm know Metz is just their branding on generic Chinese made machines, so probably the same as staskeys, although they have a more established brand.
I got one of the 18" deep generic no brand name ones (about £100) and heavily modified it with bracing and a motor which I run from a DeWalt battery as they like to flex. Lots of info online.
Can't fault it.
Depending on what you're doing / length, but I'm not sure I'd be wanting to use a crank handle, often handy to have 2 hands steadying the part, I've seen some modified to use an old steering wheel instead.
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Also, in my case currently I only need one to make up a hood for the FRANKENTRACTOR but previously made a few small swaged panels for the fake doors the Rezin Rockit will be getting. So my needs are limited, and in that lies another question, will a decent tool inspire me to make more complex, quality parts or be a waste. Those tools are meant for edging panels as they don't have a deep throat, but ought to be reasonably rigid. This means a good result ought to be reasonably easy to produce. You've seen the plate type I have, which does have a much deeper reach but without some extra strengthening is very flexible. That means getting a deep consistent bead, or even a straight one takes a lot of luck. And some *^&$%@{#]£?~ ##nt stole the angle I had put aside to make it slightly more useful. To be properly useful for larger panels requires the addition of a variable speed motor. I suspect I still have some 45/50mm angle hidden in my garage, more than 12 years now, so remember that when you need to do the job. |
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I got one of the 18" deep generic no brand name ones (about £100) and heavily modified it with bracing and a motor which I run from a DeWalt battery as they like to flex. Lots of info online. I was thinking a 12volt reduction motor, bike chain and sprockets, foot pedal, and a car battery to keep the whole thing mobile. Making some tipping dies and tank rolls are on my list too. But they're add-ons, whereas the bracing is essential. |
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Nov 25, 2022 10:59:06 GMT
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i don't have one of the small ones, but i do have a modified chinese plate one (as per a few other people in the thread) mine had been strengthened, then a lidl winch/9" angle grinder gearbox/sprocket and chain franken conversion to electrify it. makes it MUCH more useable! I also have a steering wheel on mine, which is handy for odds and sods when you cant be bothered to plug it in....
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Current fleet:
'58 A35 (half mine)
'67 11 window splitscreen vw (half mine)
'77 mini 1000 (not quite 1000 any more!!)
'86 Armstrong MT500
'89 XR4X4
'94 Corrado VR6
Some sort of sevenesque kit car (no age yet!!)
'01 Mondeo estate 2.0 (engine eventually destined for kit car!) - scrapped, engine only left!
'98 E300 estate, rusty but seemingly reliable, fast-ish tat hauler. eventual engine donor
A35 van, or whats left of it after it lived in a field for many years
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teaboy
Posted a lot
Make tea, not war.
Posts: 1,911
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Nov 25, 2022 16:11:44 GMT
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Thanks for the input chaps. As has been said, these are 100% Cheap but it should work for what I need it for (edging panels). I have not been able to come up with anything decent used from ebay so I started looking for something new that was a reasonable price/quality. The Metz place isn't too far from me so I went to have a look at one today.  That picture was taken in my shed just now... Cheers. |
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pptom
Part of things
Posts: 469
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Nov 25, 2022 18:08:44 GMT
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I got one of the 18" deep generic no brand name ones (about £100) and heavily modified it with bracing and a motor which I run from a DeWalt battery as they like to flex. Lots of info online. I was thinking a 12volt reduction motor, bike chain and sprockets, foot pedal, and a car battery to keep the whole thing mobile. Making some tipping dies and tank rolls are on my list too. But they're add-ons, whereas the bracing is essential. For info, I have a parvalux 24v geared motor (can't remember the rpm) which happily runs from the 18v cordless tool batteries, it's a mighty little thing, runs direct on the shaft, same as the cranking handle. I bodged up a pedal and brought a DC motor speed controller for about £8 so the foot pedal gives variable speed. Let me know if you want some more details. Tom |
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teaboy
Posted a lot
Make tea, not war.
Posts: 1,911
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Nov 25, 2022 18:13:54 GMT
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For info, I have a parvalux 24v geared motor (can't remember the rpm) which happily runs from the 18v cordless tool batteries, it's a mighty little thing, runs direct on the shaft, same as the cranking handle. I bodged up a pedal and brought a DC motor speed controller for about £8 so the foot pedal gives variable speed. Let me know if you want some more details. Tom That sounds very interesting, any info would be great, thanks. |
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Nov 25, 2022 18:30:49 GMT
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It does.
Knowing the RPM would save setting up with a stopwatch and counting the rotations of the crank in a measured time.
I do need a compact setup, so connecting a motor directly to the shaft would be very helpful.
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Nov 25, 2022 18:57:43 GMT
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I got one of the 18" deep generic no brand name ones (about £100) and heavily modified it with bracing and a motor which I run from a DeWalt battery as they like to flex. Lots of info online. I was thinking a 12volt reduction motor, bike chain and sprockets, foot pedal, and a car battery to keep the whole thing mobile. Making some tipping dies and tank rolls are on my list too. But they're add-ons, whereas the bracing is essential. It really depends on what you want to do with it. I never braced mine and its giving acceptable results, even at full reach They're not perfect but certainly acceptable and much better than trying to hammer form or press them. I have made a bolt on stiffner/depth stop for joggling panel edges but haven't actually needed it yet. I think youtube sometimes persuades people they need to mod cheap tools when in fact its just a content creator doing exactly that, making videos for the sake of it. |
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pptom
Part of things
Posts: 469
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Nov 25, 2022 19:22:27 GMT
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I'm away for the weekend, but will put some details up when I get back 👍
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Same one different colour and sold by Machinery House in NZ. I bought it from a mate selling on behalf of the previous owners widow and it was still in its greased paper. I made an adaptor for mine to accept a 1/2 square drive so I can use a ratchet or battery rattle gun to drive it and an adaptor so it sits in the bench vice instead of clamping to the bench  |
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Vitesse 6 Saloon
Vitesse Mk2 Convertible
BMW R1150GS
VW Amarok
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pptom
Part of things
Posts: 469
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Nov 28, 2022 16:57:52 GMT
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The whole rig is fairly heavy and quite long, although I can pick it up off the floor and stick in in a vice  This is the parvalux motor, think it was some sort of a winch in a previous life, never had it struggling on 1mm steel. 7 rpm is just about right, although in reality it's from an 18v battery rather than 24, so maybe more like 6 rpm  Power comes off the DeWalt battery via a couple of spade terminals which just fit in the battery slots and goes into a DC motor controller  There is a potentiometer on leads from the controller which I've rigged through a foot pedal and an output to the motor. It also has a forward / reverse function. Pretty good for about £8 although I've fried a couple putting it on the battery in the wrong polarity. The motor is attached to a bracket I've welded / bolted to the main body. I've left the winch drum on it and welded a collar to this which slips over the drive shaft which the handle originally attached to and an M6 bolt holds it onto the keyway / slot  I also made a guide for doing long runs, very useful, it just clamps in the slot  |
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pptom
Part of things
Posts: 469
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Nov 28, 2022 17:10:28 GMT
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I treated mine as a mini project, so also modified the clamping bolt with a longer arm and a snooker ball handle and welded some angle across the back to triangulate it as bracing, despite the body being maybe 10mm steel, it does flex a fair bit and as I was doing long runs I wanted it to be perfect. Does full depth of all of the dies in 1 pass  Made a tipping die and a nylon plain lower die for it, but even though the nylon is pretty hard it still allowed the tipping die to 'push through' so I replaced it with a plain steel lower die which is much better  |
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Last Edit: Nov 28, 2022 17:12:42 GMT by pptom
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