|
|
Mar 20, 2023 19:40:21 GMT
|
Just still cannot believe how rusty this is. I continue to take my hat off to you. I completely understand your comment about being too deep in to stop now. When I did the work on my Anglia in the early 00s it started to become apparent that it wasn’t just the sills and a few bits of floor that needed replacing. The whole thing was rotten. I’d already invested too much time and money into it to turn back, but in hindsight there’s no way I would have started restoring a car that rotten if I’d known how bad it was. Sounds like my Standard.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 25, 2023 18:45:30 GMT
|
Just still cannot believe how rusty this is. I continue to take my hat off to you. I completely understand your comment about being too deep in to stop now. When I did the work on my Anglia in the early 00s it started to become apparent that it wasn’t just the sills and a few bits of floor that needed replacing. The whole thing was rotten. I’d already invested too much time and money into it to turn back, but in hindsight there’s no way I would have started restoring a car that rotten if I’d known how bad it was. I knew how rusty it was but somehow still managed to massively underestimate just how much work it would need. The real question mark was over my own enthusiasm and sanity, though I'm now convinced an abundance of either should firmly rule out the other. I told the seller I suspected there would be two years worth of welding and I'm now 18 months in. Although desperately trying not to think too far ahead, I have been looking at colours and trying to figure out how the seats will work as these need to be custom made. I've also been doing research into a potential engine swap and some of the work I'm doing now is with that in mind. I'm still not looking forward to replacing this frilly chassis leg though.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 25, 2023 19:28:04 GMT
|
Again, what a great save... As far as a engine swap, "I've also been doing research into a potential engine swap and some of the work I'm doing now is with that in mind.", have you seen what scmick has been doing? Fiat 850's and Simca 1000's are similar enough to compare ( they are both rear engined Dante Giacosa designs from the same era), and scmick has done some interesting swaps (a Simca powered 133, and a Honda powered Simca). I'm really enjoying this buildthread, and I think a engineswap will bring it to the next level... ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/smiley.png)
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 25, 2023 20:36:42 GMT
|
Thanks, I have seen some of Scmicks projects, all interesting stuff and often very brave.
I'm trying to focus on the body and not get too side tracked by engine swaps just yet, but pretty soon I need to spin the van around and get to the business end.
Then I'll have some serious questions to answer.
That said I do have a plan involving a modern fire engine and a vw transaxle festering away at the back of my mind. I'm all for chasing reliability over power.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Fantastic work and very inspiring! I have a commer van that I thought was rotten. This has given me some confidence. I take my hat off to you!!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mar 30, 2023 20:49:04 GMT
|
Fantastic work and very inspiring! I have a commer van that I thought was rotten. This has given me some confidence. I take my hat off to you!! Thanks, sometimes you've just got to take a brave pill and crack on. At the end of the day its only metal and can always be repaired.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Right....it's happened again! Somehow, I've managed to yet again let another excellent thread pass me by....until yesterday. The content is definitely my kind of thing. I absolutely feel your pain. Your comment about 'being in too deep to stop' I can definitely relate to. It was exactly the same for me with my LT35. There were times where I felt like giving up. Especially when you have the mindset of doing one bit at a time, but every time you focus on that one bit, there's more rust behind that.....and then more rust behind that bit as well! It definitely knocks the wind out of your sails. But....keep going as you are! All the hard work will definitely pay off. You're doing an excellent job so far! Now bookmarked so I don't miss anything. Dan.
|
|
Opel Commodore A Coupe Opel Rekord C Coupe Opel Rekord C Saloon Vauxhall Magnum Coupe V8 (Magnumania) Mk1 Scirocco GLS Mk1 Scirocco GLS (early chrome bumper) Corrado G60 Mk1 Cortina 2 door Pre Airflow Mk2 Escort 1300 2 Door VW LT35 Tipper Truck BMW 320D E91 Tourer
|
|
|
|
|
Very insteresting read, I absolutely love the 850 vans! Especially this 'fango' version which I never heard about... Good luck with the project!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Right....it's happened again! Somehow, I've managed to yet again let another excellent thread pass me by....until yesterday. The content is definitely my kind of thing. I absolutely feel your pain. Your comment about 'being in too deep to stop' I can definitely relate to. It was exactly the same for me with my LT35. There were times where I felt like giving up. Especially when you have the mindset of doing one bit at a time, but every time you focus on that one bit, there's more rust behind that.....and then more rust behind that bit as well! It definitely knocks the wind out of your sails. But....keep going as you are! All the hard work will definitely pay off. You're doing an excellent job so far! Now bookmarked so I don't miss anything. Dan. Thanks for the kind words, I've been following your LT thread as I used to drive one of those for work many years ago. Most LT's were horrifically abused as used prices were so low they were practically a throwaway for a good few years. For reasons I'll never be able to fathom they never got the kudos of the smaller vw vans despite being one of the most spacious for their size. Good to see one being saved and being saved well at that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Very insteresting read, I absolutely love the 850 vans! Especially this 'fango' version which I never heard about... Good luck with the project! This version is a carry over from the previous 600t fargo, though now you've said it I much prefer fango. There is progress on this, it's just slow going at the moment.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 10, 2023 18:56:41 GMT
|
More progress on the 850 to report. It's really easy to race ahead and start chopping out rust left right snd centre, god knows there's enough of it. So it becomes important to finish as much as possible in one area before moving on. In hindsight I should have braced the living curse word out of this thing the second it came off the truck. If it sits straight snd level when the wheels hit the floor it'll be nothing short of a miracle. As vans these all left the factory with a steel bulkhead spot welded in typical fiat "man falling backwards with a machine gun" approach. I intend to remove it entirely to make better use of the space inside. I'm not sure how structural they were then or how structural it has become but I'm leaving as much in for as long as possible. I have seen on "factory" conversions these little gusset peices so I'll do my best to copy that The rest of the nearside sill and floor repairs were then fully welded. The flipside of not rushing is becoming a little too reluctant to start cutting. I've spent so long welding stuff in, it feels weird to be making big holes again. That said I no longer need to pick it apart to see how it should look, nor do I need to make a lot of the panels, or so I thought. First error was the lower inner B post. I'd not rooled the bead far enough in to take the gusset. So that had to be re done Then I could continue across the floor over the main front crossmember. Fortunately I knew how this went and had a lot of the panels made. I won't bore you with the commentary as it's the same as before Out with the old In with the new Then it was time to methodically work from front to back Front sill and inner arch. At this point I discovered mistake no 2. I had already made the lower B post repair panel but hadn't been able to access that post until now, where I discovered that they're not the same size. Of course they're not, one side has a door in it! So I had to remake that as well I then made a big hole, cutting out the outer sill, inner sill three inches of floor and a similar amount of side panel in one lump Once again I have to repair rail ends and more floor as this is the worst side. The rear inner arch and suspension mount need work on this side too. Another comedy repair came in the shape of this plate that I suspect had its edges "welded" before being jammed up behind the tank. Quality peice of work
|
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 22, 2023 18:44:19 GMT
|
Slow progress but Rome wasn't built in a day. The offending sill/floor panels out for scrap With everything cleaned up I repaired the rail ends and fitted the strip or gusset peice that still doesn't seem entirely necessary This meant I could fit the larger sections of inner sill that I made up ages ago when I did the other side The inside strengthening for the jacking mounts went in and then the closing plates The bottom of the c pillar on this side was in better shape than the other so at least I could see what it should have looked like I replaced this with a top hat section. It's not as factory but it matches the other side. This was then primed as I know it'll be a while before I get to finish it off and fit the outer sill. In the meantime preparation is under way to strip the front suspension and finally swap that frilly chassis leg out. Onwards and upwards.
|
|
|
|
Rob M
Posted a lot
![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/stars/star.png)
Posts: 1,915
Club RR Member Number: 41
|
|
Apr 22, 2023 18:55:01 GMT
|
Just....WOW!!!! I so wish I had your skills, talent and patience! You are doing amazing work on that, it probably would have been easier to fabricate a complete 850T from scratch! My hat is taken off to you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Apr 23, 2023 21:08:07 GMT
|
Thank you, it's mostly just experience gained through practice, given the time most could do similar. I suspect I'll be somewhere north of 65% new metal once finished.
Part of me wishes I'd been able to weigh the scrap coming off it but the rest of me really doesn't want to know.
|
|
|
|
|
|
May 20, 2023 18:11:28 GMT
|
Progress of sorts. Despite all the bracing I hate the thought of any car sat for months (or even weeks) with structural metalwork missing. With that in mind I pressed ahead to at least get the outer sill on I'd been very careful when fitting the front sill so it came as a suprise when the centre sill wouldn't line up with both the front sill and rear corner. After several failed attempts I broke out the laser measure and discovered the rear corner isn't straight, probably never was. It's coming out anyway so it's by far the less of many evils. All prepped and on it goes The lower side panel is only in temporary as the rear arch needs to go in first. Whilst it's not a big milestone it feels like a turning point as that now makes the "shell" structurally solid with the remaining welding (besides the suspension mount) being mostly superficial. In order to do that I need to turn the van around. I decided early on that the best way forward would be to almost complete the front half of the van, suspension and all. I welded on the new jacking points so I could swap the lifting points over These look similar to those fitted to some later (and some earlier) vans but are made from much thicker steel and welded to reinforced crossmembers. Massive overkill but at least I know even the dumbest tyre monkey won't damage them in the future. That allowed me to come up with this. I've screwed some heavy wooden battens to the dollys and drilled some large flat bottomed holes in them. The axle stands are then placed in the holes and via an adaptor that prevents the axle stands from sliding on the new jacking points. This is important as it means I can still slide the van across the garage depending on which side I'm working on. In reality it's just less than a metre but thats enough for me. I've already had the wheels and drums off so they came off without any issue and then for the first time I began to think about getting the suspension apart. Sadly the poor welding evident elswhere on the van rears its ugly head once more as what at first appeared to be blobs of manky old grease...... Turn out to be where some genius decided to weld the trunnion cups to the suspension arms, cheers mate. And with that we quietly close the door and leave it for another day in the hope it was all just a bad dream.
|
|
|
|
|
|
May 21, 2023 14:41:43 GMT
|
Used to get loads of small triumphs like that, bolt would seize in the bush and wear a slot in the arm, they would throw a new trunion on and blob some weld to stop it moving.
|
|
Last Edit: May 21, 2023 19:48:56 GMT by kevins
|
|
|
|
May 21, 2023 18:11:31 GMT
|
It seems to be quite a common set up.
Fiat haven't helped matters by using a semi pushfit thread and for some inexplicable reason only fitted grease nipples to one side.
Everyone knows nipples come in pairs!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 18, 2023 18:30:22 GMT
|
A month slides by and although I have had some time on the van it feels like progress is slowing to a crawl. Before I could go any further I needed to strip the front suspension off the van. I began soaking these nuts and bolts months ago when I took the shocks out and the anti roll bar off Despite that they put up a good fight. It turns out the welding on the trunnions never really penetrated the cast iron cups so a little grinding released those The hubs came out and the bottom arms came off the van really easy, allowing me to get them on the bench for grinding. And then the bottom trunnions were out There's a separate post coming that covers the refurb of the suspension so I won't delve to far into it now. The top arms were a different story though. Despite being welded in the trunnions came out with a little grinding but the top arm mounts (held in by two through bolts and two nuts on captive bolts) took a lot more effort. Out of eight fixings only one came out with the others snapping clean off at the head Due to the nature of the top mount (cast aluminium) the through bolts (steel) are seized solid in the mount which is still fixed hard to the van. There's not enough space to get a grinder in from the top so I had to carefully drill them out. And they're off. They're going to need some extensive and creative fixes but I have a plan. And obviously despite their size the revealed more rusty holes Joy At least now I can get on with the chassis leg suspension mount thing (still not sure what it should be called) The old rail is still solid in a lot of areas but I figured it would be easier, neater and probably quicker to replace the whole section. I spent quite a while grinding the old rail away from the body to preserve as much of the mounting points as possible. I had already made up the new section a few months ago whe I had access to a 4ft sheet metal folder. All I had to do was finish the side profiles and weld the flanges on. Old and new side by side Because I'd left so much of the mounting points in the fitting was pretty straight forward Clamped and measured Mostly welded from the inside, which is what I should have done on the other side at the rear. But I hadn't so I did this side to match. Function over form, this was never destined to sit over a mirror in a show hall. And then the thick bottom plate to match the other side Despite beng a very simple structure this is the job I'd been dreading since the van first arrived. Now it's done I'm not sure what all the fuss was about but it was made a whole lot easier bu doing it in stages. The repair section and installation is probably 30 plus hours which I wouldn't have found fun in one go. Lying under the van now I can definitely see more new metal than old in the front half. Onwards and upwards
|
|
|
|
|
|
Jun 18, 2023 19:59:46 GMT
|
I constantly remind myself that any progress....no matter how small...is indeed progress and it all adds up to big results. That's certainly whats happening here. I'm really liking this thread....it's up there with my favourites. Excellent fabrication work buy the way....keep up the good work and keep chipping way at it 👍🏻
|
|
Opel Commodore A Coupe Opel Rekord C Coupe Opel Rekord C Saloon Vauxhall Magnum Coupe V8 (Magnumania) Mk1 Scirocco GLS Mk1 Scirocco GLS (early chrome bumper) Corrado G60 Mk1 Cortina 2 door Pre Airflow Mk2 Escort 1300 2 Door VW LT35 Tipper Truck BMW 320D E91 Tourer
|
|
|
|
Jun 18, 2023 21:13:09 GMT
|
Hells teeth…. I’ve welded some rusty remains in the past, but this…. 😳
This is another level. Your patience and courage are an example to us all….
|
|
1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend) 1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing) 1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
|
|
|