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May 15, 2024 16:17:43 GMT
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OK, some thoughts on a engine swap... The BMW K motorcycle engine is very nice. I'm putting one in my Fiat 500( I have a build thread on it) You'd probably want to go for the L version though, which will be less HP but with more torque. There is also a smaller 3 cylinder version of it. A Renault 5 would be a good cheap option. Gearbox and engine are pointed in the right direction. But it may be too long to fit the bodywork, and it would put all the belts , etc, behind the engine where they'd be hard to reach. Probably would need rear suspension mods. Rear engine Skoda. Same as Renault 5, but with the belts on the correct side. VW. Box and aircooled engine as a complete unit. Short, good aftermarket, no complicated ( & expensive) adapters. VW box only ( or Porsche 901), with other engine + adapter. Probably will need rear suspension mods, probably wont fit the body work. Unless you use the early 4 cyl Subaru boxer ( there used to be adapters for that), that one might fit the bodywork. Alfa Sud. A buddy of mine once put one in a Fiat 133, but as a mid engine. So it may fit the suspension, and it would fit the bodywork ( as a mid engine, but that would take away interior space), or as a rear engine if you can flip the diff. Simca 1000 gearbox and engine as a complete unit. Might fit the existing suspension, probably wont fit the bodywork. Simple cost effective way to go. Keeping it in the family, parts wise ( both being Dante Giacosa designs). I probably forgot a couple...  |
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May 15, 2024 16:50:11 GMT
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I think I'd stay away from transverse engines. Unless I could get a complete X1/9 donor. And then weld in the complete load carrying rear of the car, including engine, gearbox and suspension pick up points. ( we already know you are not scared of a bit of welding... ) That would put the fueltank, shifting linkage, etc all in the right place and pointed in the right direction, keep the wheels at the same bolt pattern. And it would keep it all Fiat ( don't know if that is important...) In a way, this being a camper, you set the bar higher than it would be with a racecar. You don't want to load up the entire family & the family dog and break down in the middle of nowhere, needing some rare esoteric conversion part that you may or may not be able to get on short notice.... |
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May 15, 2024 16:51:55 GMT
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Aircooled VW also allows you to dump the entire water cooling system, which is one less thing to worry about placing and engineering and you'll lose the heavy cast iron motor and save a ton of weight, though the height of the fanshroud might be an issue. You can cut the shrouds down.
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Last Edit: May 15, 2024 16:53:43 GMT by horrido
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May 15, 2024 17:36:50 GMT
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Some solid ideas for sure.
I had an idea early on (knowing full well i'd be welding a lot of the back end) of transplanting a modern panda back end in.
Giving me a 1.2 fiat fire unit and five speed box.
I know others would have no problems doing this but i have a couple of problems with it.
1, I don't want to completely kill the character of the van
I could buy an aged suzuki supercarry if I wanted all these things in a tiny flat fronted camper. A thought that re occurs whenever I climb under the fiat.
2, To do it legally would be a mine field I really don't want to wander in to.
I suspect that the simca and skoda units are nearly as old and potentially as questionable as the fiat running gear is.
The subaru reverse pinion kits are sadly no longer available as Diy set ups and full boxes are rather spendy. I also Don't think the box would physically fit.
I have looked at various bike engines, intially inspired by the flat six imp and then terrified by it.
I'm sure it's great for buzzing around in a small car, but is it really a sensible option for long distance cruising under four times the indended curb weight?
I'm not so sure.
Air cooled vw certainly has its appeal, the engine cooling is one of the fiats biggest drawbacks. I've even joined several vw forums and facebook groups as part of my research.
These campers are a little like the antikombi though so it almost feels like cheating.
I'm not hell bent on staying fiat but I know if I put something radical in I won't be welcome at a lot of shows.
If anybody knows of a vehicle thats more awkward that this I'd love to know about it.
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glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,340
Club RR Member Number: 64
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May 15, 2024 17:48:52 GMT
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Aren’t the latest generation Twingos rear engined? I wonder what kind of envelope they’ll fit into?
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My worst worry about dying is my wife selling my stuff for what I told her it cost...
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May 15, 2024 18:03:23 GMT
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May 15, 2024 18:06:09 GMT
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Also, you'd at least be welcomed at VW shows with an aircooled motor, if not Fiat ones.
Is there no way to turn up a rotted out 850 to take me motor and gearbox from? Suppose they're very thin on the ground and it's all seriously antique by now too. Metalshapes Renault 5 suggestion is good, but again, that stuff is ancient and hard to find as well.
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Zagato
Part of things
Posts: 80
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May 15, 2024 18:34:04 GMT
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There is another option and it’s a 6 cylinder! 😎
The BMW K1600.
Transverse straight 6 and has its own gearbox….
Try searching for Laguna Prototype One in YouTube, they have used one.
You can get a complete engine on eBay for around 2.5K.
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Last Edit: May 15, 2024 18:34:53 GMT by Zagato
1959 Abarth Double Bubble resto project
1989 Lotus Esprit LHD
1997 Lotus Eprtit GT3
1996 Jaguar XJ6 Sovereign manual gearbox from factory
Porsche 356A Coupe replica
Formula 27 Super Seven replica Alfa Nord powered
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May 15, 2024 18:38:50 GMT
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The new twingo is a re badged smart car. They do come with a subframe with gearbox and suspension If i was looking to chop the van about it would be a solid candidate. I believe a guy on the south coast has a smart engined 850t. I do have a running engine, though actual condition is unknown as yet. Just to give you an idea of the space i'm working with  Bulkhead to back panel is a total of 42cm though i could push that to 49cm if I used a single skin panel Width is a generous 90cm and height is a reasonable 55cm The gap I have to squeeze a transaxle through is 22cm   I had hoped to keep the mods bolt in (like the brake upgrades). I really don't want to create something un sellable in the future. |
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May 15, 2024 18:46:16 GMT
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There is another option and it’s a 6 cylinder! 😎 The BMW K1600. Transverse straight 6 and has its own gearbox…. Try searching for Laguna Prototype One in YouTube, they have used one. You can get a complete engine on eBay for around 2.5K. Jesus, I think 160hp might be just a tad too much, especially when it's hanging out of the back! |
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May 15, 2024 18:52:15 GMT
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There is another option and it’s a 6 cylinder! 😎 The BMW K1600. Transverse straight 6 and has its own gearbox…. Try searching for Laguna Prototype One in YouTube, they have used one. You can get a complete engine on eBay for around 2.5K. Jesus, I think 160hp might be just a tad too much, especially when it's hanging out of the back! Yep, plus, it probably doesnt have reverse... One more. Citroen GS ( another aircooled 4 cyl boxer) But like already mentioned, you are about 30 years too late to find any of this stuff in junkyards... |
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May 15, 2024 19:05:32 GMT
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May 15, 2024 20:46:23 GMT
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Renault 5 gearbox with the ring gear flipped might fit in there.
Or a Subaru EJ on a beetle gearbox.
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May 15, 2024 21:32:04 GMT
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I've seen mentioned that in Argentina people fit Fiat FIRE engines to classic 600s by using a Renault 6 gearbox, which I would imagine is more or less the same as the one in the Renault 5.
You could put in a carb 1.1 FIRE or a fuel-injected 1.1, 1.2 and so on. I think that the main difference between the 1.1 and the 1.2 is the stroke, meaning a 1.2 would be a nice torquey engine. I may be wrong but I understand it is possible to bolt on a carb 1.1 head to a 1.2 block, if you want to keep it old school.
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dikkehemaworst
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,630
Club RR Member Number: 16
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For renault options, you need adeyBut please, rebuild as is. Drive and enjoy. If the engine is not sufficient, just build a new one later. First enjoy all of your hard work. Fiat parts are easy and plentyful. |
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glenanderson
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,340
Club RR Member Number: 64
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Looking at how tight that is, maybe sticking with stock isn’t such a bad idea.
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My worst worry about dying is my wife selling my stuff for what I told her it cost...
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A Renault 5 would be a good cheap option. Gearbox and engine are pointed in the right direction. But it may be too long to fit the bodywork, and it would put all the belts , etc, behind the engine where they'd be hard to reach. Good shout, the series 1 5s were also available in 5 speed. You can use the 1.4 engine out of a Volvo 340 to get the belts on the correct side of the engine, and then you'd have a torquey 72bhp from a slightly newer engine. It all bolts straight on to each other, the Volvo uses a Cleon series Renault engine. These engines are also ridiculously compact, especially in length. I did this entire conversion in my DAF 55 at the time, it's a popular one for a reason. |
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Last Edit: May 16, 2024 6:14:34 GMT by mkickert
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The alfa 33 boxer is a great engine. If flipping the ring gear is possible it would be a good candidate.
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