madmog
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,152
Club RR Member Number: 46
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Best forum for MG Midgetsmadmog
@madmog
Club Retro Rides Member 46
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While work continues on my /8 Mercedes (update long overdue) here I've gone out and got a Mk1 Midget. Having tried a few eras of Midget, I found that the extra space of skinny seats and hollow doors made for a much more comfortable experience for me and my dodgy back. Also, my daughter had wanted me to get a motorbike and sidecar for daddy-daughter adventures. This is the closest alternative; conversation without shouting, reverse gear, cheaper price and some water-proofing being the luxury compromises over a motorcycle-sidecar outfit. So far she is thrilled at how it messes up her hair and being indicator monkey, the indicator being a Lucas LEFT-OFF-RIGHT switch in the middle; no indicator stalk in this model but voice activated so long as the monkey is on board. LEFT.... NO, OTHER LEFT .... CANCEL I have some questions and wondered which would be the best Midget forum given I can't read them all? Something like good old RR in attitude. My questions so far: Hoods: There seem to be a lot of suppliers and varying qualities, which companies/types are to be trusted/avoided? (PM if saying bad things, don't want anyone getting sued). There's a place in America, Bugeye guy that provides a template with their hoods for where the fasteners should go on the body. Is this a typical thing as I have missing fasteners so need to get the exact right places. Their stuff seems good but import taxes will make it too expensive. Is the frogeye sprite hood exactly the same as Mk1 Midget & Mk 2 Sprite? Some hoods have zip in rear windows - is this a gimmick or worth having? Does his allow screen replacement or or is it just about ventilation? Related to this, the old hoods. Can the welded-in clear plastic be replaced? Most youtubes say, 'throw the old hood away and get a new one'. The car came with two old hoods that might be serviceable but for the clear parts. I can't really fit them as I can't fit the hood frame at the moment. They might have shrunk too much. The hood frame, which on the Mk1 is removable, (that is to say it must be removed when not in use) : Is there a HOWTO on how to get the springy part at the bottom apart for restoration? One side has set solid. I don't want to smash it trying to get it apart. Rear panhard rod, would it make the ride less comfortable? Previous owners have already fitted a front ARB and disc brakes. Rear is a little bit 'hoppy'. Suppliers of seat covers. I can't find any for the Mk1 type seats. The seats are extremely confortable and there's very little of them, they'll do for now but look like a dog chewed them. Sidescreens - has anyone replaced the (going opaque) perspex with glass, polycarbonate or some better plastic polymer? Gearbox - extremely difficult to get from 2nd to 3rd. I had 2 Morris Minors in the past albeit '66 and '67 and these never had this problem with presumably the same gearbox. Is it normal or, if not, how much of a faff to fix? I can live with it for now, but planning ahead. I don't want this to be a project yet as it'll dilute from work on the Merc. Meetings. Any MG clubl/meets in South Essex/East London? Thanks as ever  |
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I used Don hoods for my TR7, took a while to arrive but great quality and fit.
I have had a new window sew into a welded hood it worked but wasn't particularly neat.
For the fixings the usual way is to fit them to the body then punch the hood to match when you fit it.
Zip in rear windows mean you can have some shade and more air on hot days, I've used it a few times on long journeys but not very often.
Gearbox should be the same feel as a minor, could be something simple in the remote or may be something in the selectors but as the midget has I believe a fixed trans tunnel it's got to come out for either. (might be worth checking it has the right gearstick, smooth and ribbed case ones differ.
I once fitted a panhard rod to a escort, didn't effect the ride but massively improved the handling.
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I've got a MK2 sprite (same as the MK1 midget) and I used AH Spares for a lot of bits when I rebuilt it although that was over 20 years ago! AH Spare list the hood on a MK2 sprite being different to a Frogeye, i'm not sure what the difference is (the early Frogeye's are very different as they have studs at the top of the screen but most of them are like the MK2. www.ahspares.co.uk/sprite/hoods-tonneaus/When i've bought hoods before they came without the fixings to the body fitted so you can fit these to suit your car. I'm not sure how the hood frame spring mechanism comes apart but I would be reluctant to try stripping it down, perhaps try soaking it in something to see if it will release. |
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Gearbox is not necessarily the same as a late Morris Minor. Is this Midget a GAN1 or GAN2? The former would be 948cc with the smoothcase box, if still as per factory spec. A GAN2 would have a 1098 (boat anchor - overstroked and weak bottom end - 948 is much stronger) and the stronger ribcase box, as used on 1098 Minors too (although possibly not the same ratios). Smoothcase boxes are known for weak synchromesh. Frogeye (H)AN5 hood is essentially the same as HAN6 / HAN7 Sprite Mk2 or GAN1 / GAN2 Midget Mk1, in that it will fit. Differences will be in detail. Mk2 Sprite / Mk1 Midget one should be available though. Tonneau covers are not - Frog one will fit, but doesn't like being left clipped on over the open space behind the seats when the seats are uncovered (not an issue on a Frog, as that area is paneled over). AH Spares should be able to supply a correct Mk2 Sprite / Midget Mk1 tonneau as I lent them my original to use as a pattern to correct the Frogeye one that they supplied me back in around 2004/5... As for the frame, never needed to sort the spring mechanism, but can look up in the factory parts book for you if that's any good? Have read that the rear will be a bit interesting compared to later Spridgets, as it's 1/4 elliptic springs with radius arms. Never driven a later one to compare though. Do you have full tyre clearance off the rear arches? The correct narrower wire wheel rear axle casing for 1/4 elliptic cars are poor quality wobbly children's play pony droppings, so guessing that you probably have bolt on adaptors. A panhard rod may help to keep the axle centred. I was looking at fitting one to my Sprite, to prevent my period alloys from scrubbing the sidewalls on the square arches.
Best club is probably the Midget & Sprite Club (MASC) - they have loads of local meets too. Best forum is probably this: mg-cars.org.uk/cgi-bin/or17?runprog=mgbbsThe software may be very basic, but it is excellent for tech stuff, and has searchable archives going back to the mid '90s. |
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Last Edit: Oct 5, 2022 20:00:07 GMT by Paul H
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Yes, a Mk1 Midget should have a 948cc engine and smooth-case gearbox.
The Mk2 1098cc (10CC) Midgets aren't that bad, since they used larger crank main bearings, so should easily handle 6,000 rpm or so.
As for gearbox, try removing the gearstick (3 bolts on top) and checking the tensioner spring and cup are underneath it, and grease it all up. Also you can remove the side inspection hatch (8 nuts) and check the bolts for the selector forks are tight - they can work loose and cause gearchange problems.
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Yes, a Mk1 Midget should have a 948cc engine and smooth-case gearbox. The Mk2 1098cc (10CC) Midgets aren't that bad, since they used larger crank main bearings, so should easily handle 6,000 rpm or so. As for gearbox, try removing the gearstick (3 bolts on top) and checking the tensioner spring and cup are underneath it, and grease it all up. Also you can remove the side inspection hatch (8 nuts) and check the bolts for the selector forks are tight - they can work loose and cause gearchange problems. The later MK1 Midgets and MK2 Sprites had the 1098 engine and I think the smooth case gearbox. I understood that the earlier ones had the 10CG engine (small crank bearings like a minor) and the later ones were the 10CC engine (larger crank).
I had both a 10CG and 10CC engine in a Frogeye and they were both fine, the 10CG just wore out and I had a 10CC so rebuilt that instead.
In my experience both smooth case and the later ribbed case gearbox have a nice smooth positive gearchange so if yours isn't then it needs some investigation. As mentioned above I recall there is a difference in the gearstick so you probably need to check that you have the right one.
If you are having issues with the rear suspension then check the dampers are working, i've had a fair sprites on quarter eleptic and they have always driven fine. It does take a bit of getting used to though when you jump out of modern car with independant suspension, ABS, disc brakes etc. but I drove my Sprite to Holland in 2006 and it was a great journey.
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madmog
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,152
Club RR Member Number: 46
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Best forum for MG Midgetsmadmog
@madmog
Club Retro Rides Member 46
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Gearbox is not necessarily the same as a late Morris Minor. Is this Midget a GAN1 or GAN2? The former would be 948cc with the smoothcase box, if still as per factory spec. A GAN2 would have a 1098 (boat anchor - overstroked and weak bottom end - 948 is much stronger) and the stronger ribcase box, as used on 1098 Minors too (although possibly not the same ratios). Smoothcase boxes are known for weak synchromesh. July 1961 948cc. Not sure of gearbox - in that I haven't had time to crawl around and check gearbox casing. Being 61 years old, what it started with and what it has now could be quite different. It is a 948 engine though. Frogeye (H)AN5 hood is essentially the same as HAN6 / HAN7 Sprite Mk2 or GAN1 / GAN2 Midget Mk1, in that it will fit. Differences will be in detail. Mk2 Sprite / Mk1 Midget one should be available though. Tonneau covers are not - Frog one will fit, but doesn't like being left clipped on over the open space behind the seats when the seats are uncovered (not an issue on a Frog, as that area is paneled over). AH Spares should be able to supply a correct Mk2 Sprite / Midget Mk1 tonneau as I lent them my original to use as a pattern to correct the Frogeye one that they supplied me back in around 2004/5... Do you use the Tonneau much; do you go out with both stashed or decide in advance, weather looks iffy, I'll take the soft top today? Is the tonneau waterproof? Or rather does it keep the water out? As for the frame, never needed to sort the spring mechanism, but can look up in the factory parts book for you if that's any good? Don't worry too much unless you have the book nearby and are looking in there anyway. It seems that the tube is compressed to keep the spring in and the two parts together. I don't think they are serviceable. Am I correct in thinking you compress and lock in the spring, fit the hood over then release the spring tension to pull the hood taut? If so is it hard to get the hood undone under tension? Have read that the rear will be a bit interesting compared to later Spridgets, as it's 1/4 elliptic springs with radius arms. Never driven a later one to compare though. Do you have full tyre clearance off the rear arches? The correct narrower wire wheel rear axle casing for 1/4 elliptic cars are poor quality wobbly children's play pony droppings, so guessing that you probably have bolt on adaptors.
I just checked, there's one finger clearance on the left and two fingers on the right! Is the casing fixable, can more metal be welded in to strengthen? A panhard rod may help to keep the axle centred. I was looking at fitting one to my Sprite, to prevent my period alloys from scrubbing the sidewalls on the square arches. Best club is probably the Midget & Sprite Club (MASC) - they have loads of local meets too. Best forum is probably this: mg-cars.org.uk/cgi-bin/or17?runprog=mgbbsThe software may be very basic, but it is excellent for tech stuff, and has searchable archives going back to the mid '90s. Thank you so much for all of this. I've got the lights working today. It was a broken light switch but I had a Morris Minor one lying around that works just fine. The green indicator telltale light was connected through the Midget switch for some reason. Ie in and out of the lightswitch so just Iconnected them direct together. |
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madmog
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,152
Club RR Member Number: 46
|
Best forum for MG Midgetsmadmog
@madmog
Club Retro Rides Member 46
|
|
|
As for gearbox, try removing the gearstick (3 bolts on top) and checking the tensioner spring and cup are underneath it, and grease it all up. Also you can remove the side inspection hatch (8 nuts) and check the bolts for the selector forks are tight - they can work loose and cause gearchange problems. Can you get at the inspection hatch without removing or dropping the gearbox and will the oil fall out/should it be drained first? Thank you |
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madmog
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,152
Club RR Member Number: 46
|
Best forum for MG Midgetsmadmog
@madmog
Club Retro Rides Member 46
|
|
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If you are having issues with the rear suspension then check the dampers are working, i've had a fair sprites on quarter eleptic and they have always driven fine. It does take a bit of getting used to though when you jump out of modern car with independant suspension, ABS, disc brakes etc. but I drove my Sprite to Holland in 2006 and it was a great journey. [/div][/quote] I could imagine doing a long distance in it, it's that comfortable - and I do often have back issues. It felt like mild axle tramp. I don't think a problem as such, just something a panhard rod might iron out. |
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Gearbox is not necessarily the same as a late Morris Minor. Is this Midget a GAN1 or GAN2? The former would be 948cc with the smoothcase box, if still as per factory spec. A GAN2 would have a 1098 (boat anchor - overstroked and weak bottom end - 948 is much stronger) and the stronger ribcase box, as used on 1098 Minors too (although possibly not the same ratios). Smoothcase boxes are known for weak synchromesh. July 1961 948cc. Not sure of gearbox - in that I haven't had time to crawl around and check gearbox casing. Being 61 years old, what it started with and what it has now could be quite different. It is a 948 engine though. Frogeye (H)AN5 hood is essentially the same as HAN6 / HAN7 Sprite Mk2 or GAN1 / GAN2 Midget Mk1, in that it will fit. Differences will be in detail. Mk2 Sprite / Mk1 Midget one should be available though. Tonneau covers are not - Frog one will fit, but doesn't like being left clipped on over the open space behind the seats when the seats are uncovered (not an issue on a Frog, as that area is paneled over). AH Spares should be able to supply a correct Mk2 Sprite / Midget Mk1 tonneau as I lent them my original to use as a pattern to correct the Frogeye one that they supplied me back in around 2004/5... Do you use the Tonneau much; do you go out with both stashed or decide in advance, weather looks iffy, I'll take the soft top today? Is the tonneau waterproof? Or rather does it keep the water out? As for the frame, never needed to sort the spring mechanism, but can look up in the factory parts book for you if that's any good? Don't worry too much unless you have the book nearby and are looking in there anyway. It seems that the tube is compressed to keep the spring in and the two parts together. I don't think they are serviceable. Am I correct in thinking you compress and lock in the spring, fit the hood over then release the spring tension to pull the hood taut? If so is it hard to get the hood undone under tension? Have read that the rear will be a bit interesting compared to later Spridgets, as it's 1/4 elliptic springs with radius arms. Never driven a later one to compare though. Do you have full tyre clearance off the rear arches? The correct narrower wire wheel rear axle casing for 1/4 elliptic cars are poor quality wobbly children's play pony droppings, so guessing that you probably have bolt on adaptors.
I just checked, there's one finger clearance on the left and two fingers on the right! Is the casing fixable, can more metal be welded in to strengthen? A panhard rod may help to keep the axle centred. I was looking at fitting one to my Sprite, to prevent my period alloys from scrubbing the sidewalls on the square arches. Best club is probably the Midget & Sprite Club (MASC) - they have loads of local meets too. Best forum is probably this: mg-cars.org.uk/cgi-bin/or17?runprog=mgbbsThe software may be very basic, but it is excellent for tech stuff, and has searchable archives going back to the mid '90s. Thank you so much for all of this. I've got the lights working today. It was a broken light switch but I had a Morris Minor one lying around that works just fine. The green indicator telltale light was connected through the Midget switch for some reason. Ie in and out of the lightswitch so just Iconnected them direct together.
My Sprite is July '61 too  If still 948, it probably still has the smoothcase as well. Worth getting a copy of Terry Horler's Original Sprite & Midget book.
If on my own, I usually ran with the tonneau over the passenger side. When two up, usually kept it still covering the rear shelf as this stopped anything flying out. Yes, it's waterproof as long as water doesn't pool around the zip - use the tonneau bars for this. Best to park nose up, so any water on the rear deck doesn't flow under the back edge. Only used the hood if raining. Best to store with the hood up though, as it keeps it from shrinking, and thus makes it easier to put up as and when needed in a hurry! I usually left the frame assembled and tucked behind the seats (as per Frogeye storage), under the tonneau.
As it has been off the road for seventeen years now, the hood has been up for quite a long time!
Yes, the frame tensioner is only applied once the hood is on and all clipped in place. Guess it could be unclipped at the back with the tension still on, but I've never tried.
Nothing wrong with your axle casing - just wondering on clearance with the extra width of the adaptors!
Btw, replacing the perspex in the side screens is easy. I can't remember the exact details, but I think that the flexibility of the perspex is needed when installing the glazing.
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As for gearbox, try removing the gearstick (3 bolts on top) and checking the tensioner spring and cup are underneath it, and grease it all up. Also you can remove the side inspection hatch (8 nuts) and check the bolts for the selector forks are tight - they can work loose and cause gearchange problems. Can you get at the inspection hatch without removing or dropping the gearbox and will the oil fall out/should it be drained first? Thank you On a Morris Minor it is easily accessible, by jacking up the car (supported, of course) and going underneath (inspection cover is on the driver's side). Not sure about a Midget, but I imagine it would be similar... You probably will have to drain the gearbox first, or at least to the level of the bottom of the hatch. You may find this link helpful: www.mirabelleclassiccars.co.uk/gearbox2.pdf There are also many YouTube videos of various MG Midget/Minor gearbox rebuilds, etc. |
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If still 948, it probably still has the smoothcase as well. Worth getting a copy of Terry Horler's Original Sprite & Midget book.