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Aug 27, 2022 19:55:38 GMT
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I have an e36 compact with a volvo b230 engine in it. I did a rally recently in it and at the start on a hot day the car would not restart as teh engine had heat soaked alot, Now i have looked at the davis craig water pumps, i like the idea, but i don't like the controller screen idea. It looks over complicated. Also, i am quite into Arduinos.
So my plan is to buy a water pump and control it myself.
With the davis craig controller, if you are driving at normal speeds, is the water pump going all the time? I have watched some youtube vids of installations, and they go on about pulse width modulated controlling, but as far as i can see teh wiring looms have a normal 4 pin relay controlling the pump, they wont do pwm of any really speed, but i have thought that relay could be for the electric fan and i have got it wrong?
In the installation vids i have seen also they put a temp sensor in the top hose, is that the best place? is it not better in the bottom hose or bottom of the rad? My rad atm has a port for a temp switch for the fan, its quite high up though, i could use that, but if the water ever leaked out, the sensor would nt register?
has anyone done this before? I have had a search of this forum and there is some info, but non that i can see working fully.
thanks
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Aug 28, 2022 17:21:47 GMT
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If the engine is running, you want the coolant pump running all the time. I did some work on a bmw 6cylinder back in the 90’s with an electric water pump we had the head machines to put a thermocouple between the exhaust ports to measure the temp. It was all to do with rapid warm up so we were testing at -20deg C. We started the engine from cold with the pump off and the valve seats got extremely hot in no time at all. I can’t remember all the exact details as it was a long time ago.
I’d put the temp sensor in the top hose as this will be warmer than the bottom. You could run the pump and fan after the engine is off too stop heat soak but it seems a lot of effort to me. After each stage I generally just leave it idle for a while to cool the engine.
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,188
Club RR Member Number: 170
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davis craig water pumpChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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Aug 28, 2022 19:15:04 GMT
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I have an e36 compact with a volvo b230 engine in it. I did a rally recently in it and at the start on a hot day the car would not restart as teh engine had heat soaked alot, Now i have looked at the davis craig water pumps, i like the idea, but i don't like the controller screen idea. It looks over complicated. Also, i am quite into Arduinos. So my plan is to buy a water pump and control it myself. With the davis craig controller, if you are driving at normal speeds, is the water pump going all the time? I have watched some youtube vids of installations, and they go on about pulse width modulated controlling, but as far as i can see teh wiring looms have a normal 4 pin relay controlling the pump, they wont do pwm of any really speed, but i have thought that relay could be for the electric fan and i have got it wrong? In the installation vids i have seen also they put a temp sensor in the top hose, is that the best place? is it not better in the bottom hose or bottom of the rad? My rad atm has a port for a temp switch for the fan, its quite high up though, i could use that, but if the water ever leaked out, the sensor would nt register? has anyone done this before? I have had a search of this forum and there is some info, but non that i can see working fully. thanks When I had my DC eWP, the pump rarely worked at full whack. It's not RPM dependant, it's more temperature dependant, which gthe controller does. It effectively becomes a thermostat. During driving, the pump will pulse and work at say 50% duty. The only time the pump works at full whack is when the car is idling in traffic, and there is no airflow to assist the cooling. It's quite a smart bit of kit is the controller, and is something I doubt most ECUs do as well as that does, bar an OEM ECU, where eWPs are fitted (BMW N52 engines for example). The other thing is does is to run the controller for a while after the engine turns off so as avoid heat soaking the engine. In your cause, it sounds like a heatshield is missing or a fuel line is running very close to a heat source. That will also cost quite a bit of power. I'd look into shielding the fuel sources, or seeing how the factory Volvo fuel system worked. On almost any new EFI engine, I've not had issues with heat soak, unless -Fuel has boiled -Starter motor is heat soaked, generally from it either being poor quality, or a heatshield missing. The latter was very common on Ford CVHs, as many mechanics would not fit the starter motor heatshield, as they were either too lazy or it was too much of a faff for them to fit back. My RS Turbo actually had the exhaust manifold wrapped in lieu of that, which did the trick
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Last Edit: Aug 28, 2022 19:17:57 GMT by ChasR
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Aug 28, 2022 20:07:02 GMT
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all the heat shields are there, but this is an old design injection system, maybe from 1990? It has only done this once mind on one of the hottest days we have had here.
A big problem i see is when i do a rally, the car is flat out, then to a hault for maybe a min or two [depending on how well I'm doing !! ] then flat out again. I am always worried when i stop that the engine will heat soak, and also when its 5-4-3-2-1 GO! its now really hot and not ideal conditions.
I could just buy the kit, i don't mind spending on it but i don't see the point, i am into arduinos, and it is a project for me.
I think ill go for a davis craig pump new. I could buy a big mosfet and use PWM to spin it slowly for warm up then do something like a slow pwm speed, at normal temps, and flat out when it starts to rise.
the dais controller as i say, it looked like from youtube vids it has a 12v relay to turn the pump on and off, so that would mean no pwm
Reason i want to do this now is ive spent a bit to get a head done, and i don't want to run the standard pump anymore. I don't think its good for what I'm doing only a compromise.
thanks for the replies
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Aug 30, 2022 15:31:01 GMT
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not starting from hot on 90s kit? I'd look at the crank sensor, if it spins but won't fine it's probably that as there's not much else that'll stop them
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,188
Club RR Member Number: 170
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davis craig water pumpChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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Sept 1, 2022 23:50:08 GMT
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I've had -70s Merc Injection (Bosch D-Jetronic, which a mate's Citroen DS21 also runs) -Various K-Jet cars (Volvo 740, Escort XR3is) -A KE-Jet car (Escort RST) -EFI cars (Porsche 944s and a Merc S124 3.2 M104 on Motronic, Pug 205 GTi on L-Jetronic (That survived a 39 degree day in Germany, when a mate's wiring harness melted at the same time on his Volvo C70 T5 GT due to excess heat ;The Pug was getting warm then too as we were both behind an AC'd coach!. Oh, and a Volvo 740 on a form of EFI system, driven in Spain in the height of the summer like a few cars above) I'm not criticising you, but it's something I'm struggling to grasp hot start isues, from my own experience of the cars I've had, hence the quoting of the examples. None of them have struggled to start hot, and they are by all accounts, an old, and questionably more basic system in some of the above. It seems you have the right idea regarding the pump. I'd be intrigued to see how the Arduino controls the pump. (i.e PWM and slower pump speeds or just cutting the pump in and out) .
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Last Edit: Sept 1, 2022 23:51:15 GMT by ChasR
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melle
South West
It'll come out in the wash.
Posts: 1,981
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I had similar questions a while ago, perhaps you can glean something from this thread.
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www.saabv4.com'70 Saab 96 V4 "The Devil's Own V4" '77 Saab 95 V4 van conversion project '88 Saab 900i 8V
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Sept 2, 2022 16:55:16 GMT
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I've had -70s Merc Injection (Bosch D-Jetronic, which a mate's Citroen DS21 also runs) -Various K-Jet cars (Volvo 740, Escort XR3is) -A KE-Jet car (Escort RST) -EFI cars (Porsche 944s and a Merc S124 3.2 M104 on Motronic, Pug 205 GTi on L-Jetronic (That survived a 39 degree day in Germany, when a mate's wiring harness melted at the same time on his Volvo C70 T5 GT due to excess heat ;The Pug was getting warm then too as we were both behind an AC'd coach!. Oh, and a Volvo 740 on a form of EFI system, driven in Spain in the height of the summer like a few cars above) I'm not criticising you, but it's something I'm struggling to grasp hot start isues, from my own experience of the cars I've had, hence the quoting of the examples. None of them have struggled to start hot, and they are by all accounts, an old, and questionably more basic system in some of the above. It seems you have the right idea regarding the pump. I'd be intrigued to see how the Arduino controls the pump. (i.e PWM and slower pump speeds or just cutting the pump in and out) . I'm not having hot start issues, just on one day, when the engine had sat, it didnt start. The problem is, when i do a rally the engine gets hot, then it stops, then I'm flat out again.
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Sept 2, 2022 16:55:54 GMT
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I had similar questions a while ago, perhaps you can glean something from this thread. Ah there we are, ill just get one of those controllers. Simple system, no screen that is too much info. thanks
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