bstardchild
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,883
Club RR Member Number: 71
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Sept 24, 2022 9:28:47 GMT
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Late to the show - hello, I've been offline a bit of late. Yes, I wrote for PPC for many years (and other mags), it was the first publication to print my drivel and Will has been a mate ever since. In a nutshell, huge cost increases, a big drop in quality, and the endless surge of Facebook and YouTube have killed PPC. Sad, but life moves on. My own magazine was MotorPunk (lots of pics!), launched and ran for a year, my thinking was that if I could convert 5% of the online readership to buying print it would be viable. Sadly, for every 10 people who said "great, I'll buy it" only 1 actually did. We had great feedback and I didn't lose any money on it, but it was not growing enough to satisfy the publisher (who was very supportive throughout). The theme was rotten exotica, BL cack, interesting engineering and lots of Roadtrip stuff, it was quite jokey, too, fake watch adverts and daft letters from loonies. I am VERY proud of what we achieved. You can still buy back copies, although I think issue 1 is sold out now; Link here - www.performancepublishing.co.uk/back-issues-mp.htmlI now write for Alternative Cars, Absolute Lotus and have just started with Classic Retro Modern, my little Fiat 500 'Abarthish' is in the next issue. I don't think print is dead, but I do wish a pox on FaceBook. Even YouTube is tough - I presented for the Carfection channel for many years, owned by CBS (massive American media group) and they've just wound up operations as, even with 1 million subscribers, it never got close to covering it's costs. Sad times for many who lost their jobs. I would not rule out kickstarting another magazine, but you'd have to be brave in today's climate. I have all 4 of these mags. Definatly a great read. I often get distracted in the garage when I get it down off the shelf. It was a shame that it never carried on. I too still think print has a place today. There are lots of good mags still around. The monthly thing I think has run its course. It shows in the quality of the content sometimes. A lot of the mini magazines I used to get repeat every few years,the same with Land Rover owner international. I only ever buy these if they have a car or an article I like. One mag I love to get is the Overland journal,comes out seasonaly and is a great read. I think that's the way forward,less often and an more quality content. Or even annually,imagine the Motorpunk annual. That would be awesome. PPC annoyed me when they gave up on the blue mk2 escort. And one of the writers just buying project cars and never working on them. Not to mention the woeful proof reading. I also remember a buyers guide that half way through just Finnish halfway through or had parts from the previous months buyers guide. In the start it was great but for me went to curse word and I stopped buying it. I have the first four motorpunk as well - loved the content even if the subject matter didn't fit into my "car interest" for me that was the success of it - tdk and his team could write about something I had no interest in and I'd still enjoy it I still have a motorpunk sticker in the back window of one of my cars and the motorpunk t-shirt is probably my most worn after my 2008 RR Gathering one
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Sept 24, 2022 16:19:41 GMT
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Same with the radwood brand. Oh the millennials have money now? How can we tap into that? With a tickbox pastiche of little bits stolen from other shows to give what boomers think young people want, that is quite comically wide of the mark. I see it as a slap in the face to other events that have been going for nearly 20 years and were set up and run by people deeply immersed in the retro car scene over here, including a fairly big forum-based one I’ve heard has been going for a while now… I've been meaning to reply to this since you posted it, but I've been otherwise engaged. Radwood and Hagerty are interesting. Radwood was a thing before Hagerty got involved (same as Festival of the Unexceptional), who grew a pretty well known brand pretty quickly in the US riding a wave of nostalgia for 80's and early 90's cars and culture. What is interesting on that point to me is the different experiences of that era. In the US it is a boom time of excess and middle-class success dominating the culture (movies, music etc.). Then they bought it to the UK, we still have the excess of the 80's (the stock broker in a red Porsche 911 etc.), but our culture was dominated not by the middle or the rich, but by the working class. It looked like this: Which meant we didn't have the same style that the 'rad' scene is based on, and it sort of doesn't work in the same way. The Hagerty aspect is a whole other thing too. So they bought the Radwood brand in the US, which is why they attempted another show over here. Hagerty are apparently buying up these brands because for them they need for there to be enthusiasts and an enthusiast scene, so that people still buy the cars that they are insuring. The older (and larger) generation of classic owners are stopping driving etc. so they need to support the new blood in order to have a classic scene to continue to provide for. It is actually a fairly sound approach, nuture the scene that generates the people that will use your business. They have the money and the means to do it. It is like O2 owning loads of venues, they are a reasonable business in themselves, but when put together with the O2 Priority stuff and the way you can bring bands through from the smaller to the larger venues (which means generally more income for the person that owns the venue) it makes sense too. As for whether Radwood is a rival to what we do. I don't see it that way, they are an aspect of what RR is about for sure, but we are second to none in every respect
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Sept 24, 2022 16:48:52 GMT
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This. That's a TLDR version put very well. Apparently, RoadKill costs around £100k an episode, and in all honesty,.... You know, I didn't actually know that but suspected it for long enough. Modern day YT and tiktok is killing what I try to do as much as internet based stuff has hammered the printed media. For context, I've been doing Toolsntrack now for what is now my fourth year. I make borderline NOTHING from youtube ads. To this day its so menial that I refuse to turn them on and interrupt the episodes I make. What has helped soften the financial blow is Patreon, but that more or less just covers the materials to put content around, its not like I get surplus pocket money from it. Part of the reason the RR TV stuff is the first to get stopped when things get busy is because of the insane amount of time it takes to do videos. Even our simple watch along videos, to record on Zoom takes anything from twenty minutes to an hour, depending on video and if we do a few in a row. However the edit, putting it in the nice frames Littlepixel made for us, top and tailing the intro/outro, adding title card, downloading and resizing source video, any cuts/edits to audio that may be needed etc. etc. can take 3 hours or so. That is just the super simple watch alongs. The more complex Show and Tell videos takes anything from 8 hours upwards (actually much longer by the time I've sourced news and pictures etc.). It just doesn't make sense timewise to do them, when I've got so much other stuff to do on Events, Website, Store, Instagram, Club etc. etc. I'd love an editor I could just throw the source videos at and they could handle it, but seeing as the most we made in any given month was £12, and the club stuff is still barely keeping the forum head above water, I doubt we'll find anyone willing to do it. The Podcast was a lot easier time wise (although still relatively time consuming). However, interviewing the same pool of people that all other car podcasts are interviewing is pointless. I've thought of some other formats, but they all need more people actively involved and it is a hard ask, considering it is all for the love. Right now I'm concentrating on doing the long-awaited improvements to this here forum, starting with the image uploader (and thread creator), hopefully a new hosting set up soon will give me the financial freedom to really push things forwards.
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Sept 24, 2022 18:54:59 GMT
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A thought on the podcast content, you have a fair depth of projects detailed here in one way or another. It would maybe be interesting If you took some of those and spoke to the OP about their project and the whys and wherefores of it. Guys like overdrive are pretty savvy with talking to the world and would make great guests also.
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jimi
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,806
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Sept 24, 2022 21:28:01 GMT
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don't you fecking dare even consider stopping T&T Indeed ToolsnTrack we have a date at Knockhill that I'm still looking forward to 😎
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Last Edit: Sept 24, 2022 21:30:00 GMT by jimi
Black is not a colour ! .... Its the absence of colour
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,189
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Sept 27, 2022 8:13:11 GMT
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A thought on the podcast content, you have a fair depth of projects detailed here in one way or another. It would maybe be interesting If you took some of those and spoke to the OP about their project and the whys and wherefores of it. Guys like overdrive are pretty savvy with talking to the world and would make great guests also. I’d be happy to help out here, even if it means chairing/chatting with folks, and getting some gear together. I probably have enough to do the AV from my side and possibly send to others, or advise at a minimum on some basics to get.
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Badger
Part of things
Posts: 250
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Sept 27, 2022 21:24:10 GMT
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I'll miss PPC, if only for the memories associated with it. I liked the humour, and whilst I didn't like all the cars in it I found most interesting, unless they'd just been wallet engineered. Me and my dad used to both read it, comment on the different cars, why stuff was done in such and such a way, or I'd just joke that whatever the cover car was had inspired me to buy one and abandon another car on his property. I'm just glad I got my kit car into the penultimate issue, and that he got to see it before he passed.
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tdk
Part of things
Posts: 958
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Sept 28, 2022 15:29:00 GMT
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I have all 4 of these mags. Definatly a great read. I often get distracted in the garage when I get it down off the shelf. It was a shame that it never carried on. I too still think print has a place today. There are lots of good mags still around. The monthly thing I think has run its course. It shows in the quality of the content sometimes. A lot of the mini magazines I used to get repeat every few years,the same with Land Rover owner international. I only ever buy these if they have a car or an article I like. One mag I love to get is the Overland journal,comes out seasonaly and is a great read. I think that's the way forward,less often and an more quality content. Or even annually,imagine the Motorpunk annual. That would be awesome. PPC annoyed me when they gave up on the blue mk2 escort. And one of the writers just buying project cars and never working on them. Not to mention the woeful proof reading. I also remember a buyers guide that half way through just Finnish halfway through or had parts from the previous months buyers guide. In the start it was great but for me went to curse word and I stopped buying it. I have the first four motorpunk as well - loved the content even if the subject matter didn't fit into my "car interest" for me that was the success of it - tdk and his team could write about something I had no interest in and I'd still enjoy it I still have a motorpunk sticker in the back window of one of my cars and the motorpunk t-shirt is probably my most worn after my 2008 RR Gathering one That's very, very kind of you to say so! Thanks! My rubbish books are on Amazon under Rich Duisberg, if you're a real motoring masochist. My "Killer Drinks" book is something different to the usual car stuff, I think it's the best thing I've written, although I've sold about 2 copies ever, or something... I am now also writing for Classic. Retro. Modern. and also Alternative Car and Absolute Lotus, by the way, and there's always new content on the www.motorpunk.co.uk blog (free words and stuff!). Thanks again.
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Last Edit: Oct 5, 2022 9:23:23 GMT by tdk
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,189
Club RR Member Number: 170
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I have all 4 of these mags. Definatly a great read. I often get distracted in the garage when I get it down off the shelf. It was a shame that it never carried on. I too still think print has a place today. There are lots of good mags still around. The monthly thing I think has run its course. It shows in the quality of the content sometimes. A lot of the mini magazines I used to get repeat every few years,the same with Land Rover owner international. I only ever buy these if they have a car or an article I like. One mag I love to get is the Overland journal,comes out seasonaly and is a great read. I think that's the way forward,less often and an more quality content. Or even annually,imagine the Motorpunk annual. That would be awesome. PPC annoyed me when they gave up on the blue mk2 escort. And one of the writers just buying project cars and never working on them. Not to mention the woeful proof reading. I also remember a buyers guide that half way through just Finnish halfway through or had parts from the previous months buyers guide. In the start it was great but for me went to curse word and I stopped buying it. I have the first four motorpunk as well - loved the content even if the subject matter didn't fit into my "car interest" for me that was the success of it - tdk and his team could write about something I had no interest in and I'd still enjoy it I still have a motorpunk sticker in the back window of one of my cars and the motorpunk t-shirt is probably my most worn after my 2008 RR Gathering one I also have the Magazines. A friend of mine discovered your magazine a little later than your release so I ended up sharing a few with him as well. I still have the Wooden MotoPunk emblem sat in my hallway, from when you hosted the magazine’s introduction at the Morgan factory .
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tdk
Part of things
Posts: 958
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I still have the Wooden MotoPunk emblem sat in my hallway, from when you hosted the magazine’s introduction at the Morgan factory . I've got one sat on my desk! Morgan kindly gave us the wood (ash) used on their car bodies, and a local college CNC'd the logo. I loved that day, great to meet people and kick off something special together. Ah well, back to the daily grind elsewhere... thanks again
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Last Edit: Oct 7, 2022 15:00:14 GMT by tdk
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Just found this in my toolbox...
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Nov 15, 2022 18:32:39 GMT
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I think you're right on this front. In one of my other hobbies (40k) there's a very successful print media product called '28mag'. Although it's free and available as a PDF download so doesn't quite demonstrate the model works financially, it follows the approach you say above. It's an annual release that feels like a real event when it's finally ready, and a solid chunk of the hobby are counting down waiting for it to come out. When it does it's 300 pages of solid, quality, inspirational content that you can spend hours and hours reading and looking at the pretty pictures. Taking the whole year to go out and find/create/gather content makes it a real quality proposition. A lot of folks have said that they'd happily pay a fair chunk of money to have a printed version to put on their tabletops and things like that. It also helps that a lot of the content is written by the community so it feels like you're really part of it, and that the mag is an integral part of the community as well. So I came across this thread a few months ago now when researching magazine ideas, and I loved the 28Mag idea. So I decided to take a shot at it, with a few changed obviously, it'll be printed but it'll be very premium (more like a book then a magazine, check out DIG BMX magazine) and for modified cars pre1996. The issues are costs, I've got the domain and the website now (still in the works but the submissions page is open) and I was thinking about maybe setting a flat rate for the magazine £15ish? (depending on printing costs) but charging a much lower rate for people who's articles got featured? in my head this will be incentive for many people to send in articles, but who knows. I'm in my final year of uni so I thought this is most likely the last time I can attempt this without work and other commitments getting in the way. That does mean it is only me who'll be editing and designing the magazine plus i'll be submitting my own articles. www.retrosmodified.com is the website with a bit more info on it. It is still in the works and I really don't like the theme but it'll work for the mean time while I start gathering articles. also just started an instagram page retrosmodified Any feedback/ideas will be greatly appreciated!
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fogey
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,590
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Nov 15, 2022 21:48:59 GMT
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Good luck with your project. As someone who has worked for the monthly motoring press on a freelance basis in the past, I would make 2 observations: Refer to 'features' not 'articles'- this sounds much more professional Pay attention to capitalization - car model names etc. Look forward to seeing your site develop.
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MiataMark
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,961
Club RR Member Number: 29
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Nov 16, 2022 10:35:59 GMT
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I still have the Wooden MotoPunk emblem sat in my hallway, from when you hosted the magazine’s introduction at the Morgan factory . I've got one sat on my desk! Morgan kindly gave us the wood (ash) used on their car bodies, and a local college CNC'd the logo. I loved that day, great to meet people and kick off something special together. Ah well, back to the daily grind elsewhere... thanks again I went to that as well, a very interesting tour (don't know where my bit of wood is though).
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1990 Mazda MX-52012 BMW 118i (170bhp) - white appliance 2011 Land Rover Freelander 2 TD4 2003 Land Rover Discovery II TD52007 Alfa Romeo 159 Sportwagon JTDm
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Darkspeed
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,669
Club RR Member Number: 39
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Apr 18, 2024 21:07:06 GMT
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Had forgotten the magazine had been mothballed and therefore didn't think anything when YT started suggesting I might like the PPC channel... bit like the magazine, needs work, especially their microphone/sound quality!
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2014 - Audi A6 Avant 3.0Tdi Quattro 1958 - Chevrolet Apache Panel Truck 1959 - Plymouth Custom Suburban 1952 - Chevrolet 2dr Hardtop 1985 - Ford Econoline E350 Quadravan 2009 - Ovlov V70 2.5T 1970 - Cortina Mk2 Estate 2007 - Fiat Ducato LWB 120Multijet 2014 - Honda Civic 2.2 CTDi ES
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