ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,188
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Jul 31, 2022 21:51:14 GMT
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PPC, I supposed was doomed from the moment it started gaining momentum. Not because all good things come to an end but for other reasons:
-Alienation
They alienated buyers which suited their rhetoric. But such cars would had potential in the future. To quote a mate of mine in the car motorsport world.
"PPC tend to have their own narrative? S2000 owner? W@&£$£r. TT owner? W@&£$£r. Kit car owner? W@&£$£r."
Sure, others shared that opinion who read it, but as those got within the reach of modders or folks on a budget, which is how PPC started out, I suspect owners would remember that.
-Repetition
They did the same things a few times. Repetition can be good like, listening to your favourite track on repeat. But eventually, you'll change and get fed up of it. In this case, the features around the DIY areas, and even the cars shown became a little repetitive. For me, that's when I stopped buying it as often. With the above point regarding alienation, it's going to limit your pool of readers as time goes on. After all, unless you change your opinion and/or move with the times, it's going to limit your content.
Maybe the cost of mods as cars have become more expensive to modify hasn't helped. Standalone Direct Injection systems have alot of potential on newer cars, but they are hideously pricey.
Sure, RoadKill get a little like this, but even they are humble enough at times to say where the modern car was decent, especially so with the newer Dodges. I'm going to say with the latter, there may be a sponsorship angle.
-YouTube
IMHO this is the single biggest issue they had. I think they mentioned doing something of the sort, in terms of videos but they never did do it. Unless they did a MotoPunk style of magazine, this would probably cost them.
RoadKill, MCM, M539 Restos, CarThrottle have really gained momentum recently. There are alot of spin offs as well, like HubNut, Number 27, and so on. It's free, visual, and simple to do. It's not the same as a magazine, but with mobiles like they are now, YouTube has become the most accessible medium. You always carry a phone with you, not a magazine. You also get something else on a device where it seems you can access everything from your fingertips. Variety. Don't like MCM at the minute? Try some M539. Maybe even SOUP!
If you think about it, it's funny that Harry Metcalfe jumped off one of the biggest magazine platforms to go to YouTube when he did. A bit too much of a coincidence. But then, with financial backing, these risks are easier I suppose. There's no doubt however, that it's played out better for him than I reckon even he imagined.
-Costs
Magazines are pricey things to run, but this does mean you need to trim costs where you can. This does come at a cost however. Content.
Yes you'll get to test cars but earning £18k a year as a writer is going to limit what you can get severely. Cars getting pricier along with mods recently, in addition to, well, everything from everyday food to houses will not help matters. I know of a few RRers making tough choices with their cars as they try to deal with things.
This means content on that side (i.e the staff cars area) is going to be limited, bar scounging for parts or being inventive in a good way. Yes, folks do manage it, but that from as far as I can see is done through
-Sponsorship of products -Outside donations/cash which has come through at the time -Less cars to own
From memory, alot of the contributors there went freelance and not so often to PPC. A shame, but a lack of cash and lack of time will not put food on the table and in some cases, it will play havoc with family life, which I've personally seen with one ex-staffer from a well known magazine.
It's a shame it went, but TBH, I'm surprised it lasted as long as it did in the Pandemic/YouTube generation.
RIP PPC
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I started buying PPC with the first issue, and I carried on for a while as there were some interesting things. I started following a series with interest as they were fitting fuel injection and mappable ignition to an engine that I've got - the slant four Vauxhall. A few months in and they dropped it because they'd started the engine up, got so excited it was running that they didn't watch for oil pressure, and ruined the bottom end because it hadn't got any. Instead of sorting the problem out they just dropped the series abruptly, and I stopped buying it at that point. Dave Walkers workshop series was interesting, but really a big advert for Emerald ECUs. But I don't really buy anything now - I can't read magazines on a phone or computer, I prefer a printed one, but I haven't really seen anything that I'm interested enough to buy.
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fogey
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,587
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If I remember correctly, Will and Kev left the relative safety of EMAP to go it alone with PPC, (apologies if I am wrong on this? )and they deserved to succeed for this reason alone. Eighteen years is a good innings for a relatively niche magazine - many of the titles launched with the corporate backing of the big publishing houses have failed much quicker than this.
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PPC, I supposed was doomed from the moment it started gaining momentum. Not because all good things come to an end but for other reasons: -Alienation They alienated buyers which suited their rhetoric. But such cars would had potential in the future. To quote a mate of mine in the car motorsport world. "PPC tend to have their own narrative? S2000 owner? W@&£$£r. TT owner? W@&£$£r. Kit car owner? W@&£$£r." Yeah, this. One of the reasons I didn't jive with it. Promote the things you love without bashing the other things. Some people have 2 (or more) sets of things in their life, more than one interest.
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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I have a (unworn) PPC T shirt, I only bought a few of the mags too pricey and many adverts.
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Shame to see another title go to the wall, but like others I haven't bought it for years. It can't be easy to keep a print magazine going with all the challenges/competition/distraction in the world as others have said, but hats off to Kev and Will for their very respectable 18-year run.
I used to buy around 15 titles a month, both old car and old aircraft related. I still mourn Retro Rides, K5054 (very brief), CCC and especially Popular Classics. However, repetition is something I have become increasingly aware of, as well as lazy editorial and so-so photography. I also think my own tastes and interests have evolved, and I am now much more driven by the aesthetic and nostalgic side of my hobbies. The few magazines I still subscribe to are:
Octane, as it's a window into a world I aspire to but don't really inhabit. It's well written, eclectic, high quality and beautifully shot. A real treat when it lands each month.
Classic, Retro, Modern - interesting, varied subjects from the obscure to the once-common, well shot, champions the unusual.
Classic Mercedes and Mercedes Enthusiast - I'm a card-carrying German car pervert and there are usually articles in both about specific models I'm into. Mainstream classic titles don't cover old Mercedes very often.
Practical Classics. I used to have every issue and will certainly have read every one, but I wonder recently if the whole 'Bangernomis' thing is really for me. I love a modern classic, but some of the cars that pass through their pages need to mature a little yet before rarity will pique my interest (personal opinion, not a dig). It may be that I don't renew my subscription and just buy the issues I like the look of.
Beyond the car world, Flypast, Aeroplane and Britain at War. Flypast was the original aeroplane 'hobby' magazine and hooked me from day one (much like the late Popular Classics did for cars). Aeroplane is probably the better read now though, with more expansive articles and niche subjects. Britain at War for the breadth of subject matter.
I think I may be edging increasingly towards the high quality, well written, beautifully photographed and laid out, but more infrequent titles. As others have said, a real event when they arrive, and a proper coffee table magazine to be savoured in the hand in the way a poor monthly or digital content cannot contend with. To this end, a couple of issues of Magneto are heading my way to see if it butters my muffin, as I suspect it may.
What I do have, and cherish, are a few lever arch files of articles cut from all of the magazines I have bought and disposed of over the years. This is a carefully curated reference magazine of my own taste, where articles on my very favourite cars (and admittedly aeroplanes and other miscellany) reside. Much (much!) easier to store than the complete magazines, there are no adverts, no irritating pundits telling me what the market insist I 'must' buy this season, and no articles on cars which mean the world to their owners but not to me (as my fleet perhaps wouldn't appeal to them - broad church and all that).
What I haven't bonded with at all, is online YouTube content. I spend my working day at a computer, and my evenings interfering with a fleet of cars and aeroplanes which may very well be better off if I left them well alone. Cram in time spent trying to do the 'decent husband' thing and I just don't have time to be glued to yet another screen watching what I am sure is very good content. A magazine is more socially acceptable to me, and I find reading to be calming in a frenetic life.
Long may good quality, well written print magazines continue.
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Last Edit: Aug 1, 2022 23:16:46 GMT by airspeed
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misteralz
Posted a lot
I may drive a Volkswagen, but I'm scene tax exempt!
Posts: 2,298
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I totally agree with your last point. I gave up telly in 2014, but living out in the countryside never had fast enough internet to get into YouTube channels to replace it. And watching a screen is no substitute for reading something 'real'. I've never wanted a kindle or anything similar for that same reason. I also used to buy loads of magazines every month, but cut right down in 2016 when I moved to the Netherlands. I kept up my subscription to Classic Porsche as that was quarterly and quality, and Hayburner because that was quarterly and cheap but fun. Classic Porsche turned to ratshit when Kelsey bought it, so I let my subscription lapse. Hayburner is still good. The mag that's impressed me most recently is Automobilsport. It's German, quarterly, 15€ an issue, incredibly well researched and written, and full of excellent photography. I might not always be that interested in the focus of an article, but I'll read it and learn about it anyway...
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Like most folks on here I mourn the passing of 'paper' magazines. Gone are the days when each months issue was eagerly awaited, I even subscribed to a few to ensure I got my 'fix' ! However the march of time and advent of social meadia and the wider internet have spelt the end of most 'mags',I'll admit I stopped buying and subscribing, to magazines on a regular basis when adverts over took the content. Who thinks, I saw and advert for x,y, z in whatever magazine, and searches through back numbers to find it ? not many, most will reach for the mouse and search the internet ...
I do still buy selected car mags when on holiday, sitting in the sun with a cool drink and reading is still a pleasure ...
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Last Edit: Aug 7, 2022 10:24:35 GMT by westbay
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Used to be an avid reader of PPC not for years now though, will be sad to see it go all the same
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I spend my working day at a computer, and my evenings interfering with a fleet of cars and aeroplanes which may very well be better off if I left them well alone. Cram in time spent trying to do the 'decent husband' thing and I just don't have time to be glued to yet another screen watching what I am sure is very good content ^^ so much yep! I genuinely can't remember ever hearing anyone else saying this - by after all day looking at a screen I try not to spend the eve doing the same. (Yes, ok tonight i'm failing haha)
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Aug 12, 2022 20:28:30 GMT
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Please don’t give up on print media. We’re trying really hard.
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Aug 12, 2022 20:36:25 GMT
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Began to feel like I’d seen it all before... Yep, I feel that way as well. I did buy magazines for years and I mean years but stopped about ten years ago. It's real pity as I always looked forward to getting the next months edition, now I don't feel I'm missing out or at any loss for not buying.
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Still learning...still spending...still breaking things!
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Aug 12, 2022 22:33:32 GMT
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Please don’t give up on print media. We’re trying really hard. I won’t ever give up on it As I’ve said there’s nothing like getting home chilling out with a cold beer and a good car mag
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Fraud owners club member 1999 Jaguar s type 1993 ford escort
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Dez
Club Retro Rides Member
And I won't sit down. And I won't shut up. And most of all I will not grow up.
Posts: 11,710
Club RR Member Number: 34
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Aug 12, 2022 23:33:34 GMT
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Any suggestions on how to fill the PPC void? There genuinely isn't anything. Retro Cars went, Fast Cars went, PPC now gone. I like the idea of something like 28mag (as per biturbo228 ) for the modified car scene. Other niche hobbies have gone through similar transitions, it has taken cars a long time due to the size of the hobby I expect. When we looked at doing the Retro Rides magazine and tried to Kickstart it we were aiming for the glossy quarterly approach. We dodged a bullet I reckon as it would have launched in April/May 2020! I actually considered also going the other way, proper oldschool Zine type publication, my wife gets a few on various esoteric subjects, they seem to come out infrequently, cost about £8-10*, are all black and white and dense with text. Not sure how that would work for the very visual world of cars. I know someone (maybe tdk ??) was doing a magazine that was mainly stories and not much (if any) photos. *often come with little extras like stickers and such That 28 mag looks good, even if it’s a subject I know little about. (Warhammered as a kid 25 years ago, haven’t been near it since). I struggle to see it working with ‘general car scene’ people though, for a couple of reasons. Wargamers are generally reconciled with the fact that most of society sees them as sad geeks who still play with kids toys, generally as a form of escapism. This is based on observation as My brother-in-law is one, as are all his friends. They don’t care though, they’re happy practicing something that involves great manual dexterity (the painting/modelling) and exercising intellect (world building/strategy). There’s a strong sense of comradeship with other gamers that stems from that. Shared weirdness of you will. Also, a total lack of regard to making money from their hobby is an important factor. The car scene is very much not like that. It’s fractious, niche, and overly competitive. Everyone trying to outdo each other, talk sh1t, halve arguments etc. ‘I’ve got the biggest/best/most expensive *thing*, I’m a big deal, respek me yo’. Money is a massive factor in all car scenes at all levels. To use a quote, This ain’t a scene, it’s a god damn arms race’. For every guy who’s a big fish there’s 100 wonnabes looking for shortcuts to being ‘somebody’ and invariably cheapening the whole experience in the process. yeah there’s small niches that are not like that, but as a factor of overall ‘car culture’ in this country, they’re tiny, and tend to keep themselves to themselves to prevent things going downhill. And yeah there’s very clever people doing clever things with certain vehicles, but for every one of them they’re a hundred total dumbasses making a nuisance of themselves. CAR GO VROOM VROOM hahahaa look at me types. There also seems to be an overriding craving for ‘coolness’. What that actually is can’t really be quantified and varies a bit, but the nuances between what makes things cool and not cool can be tiny. I think it’s also also the biggest factor what what makes people get hacked off with cars and walk away. People grow up, get bogged down in real life, and realise there’s more to it than forever chasing ‘being cool’, and invariably find something less stressful to do with their spare time. Becuase of that I think the car scene will always be fractious, and there will never been any one publication that can overview it. There will always be little scenes getting something good going on for a while and really pull together over things, But theyll tend to be a bit underground. As soon as they go mainstream they attract the idiots who cause issues and either explode or implode. We’ve both been around for a while, and seen it happen to various scenes. I guess what I’m trying to say is for the car scene to be wholesome, like the war gaming scene, you need to remove both the money and the cool factor, neither of which are ever going to happen.
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As some of you said; The Rodders Journal officially announce they are back. Woot!
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I guess what I’m trying to say is for the car scene to be wholesome, like the war gaming scene, you need to remove both the money and the cool factor, neither of which are ever going to happen. I see what you're saying to a degree about the wider car scene, but for a Retro Rides type equivalent to the Warhammer fan mag it is worth remembering that most if us don't have money and none if us are cool. In fact I suspect unlike most scenes you couldn't just turn up in RR land having splashed a load of cash on the most expensive thing and win. Even if you could though I don't think it would preclude the possibility of doing something like 28mag. It is pretty much annual by the looks of things, so think of it as a yearly report about a given scene. With interviews, a bit of history deep dive, some event reports and opinion pieces,stuff like that. I might give it a go and see.
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,188
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Aug 21, 2022 11:14:39 GMT
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I guess what I’m trying to say is for the car scene to be wholesome, like the war gaming scene, you need to remove both the money and the cool factor, neither of which are ever going to happen. I see what you're saying to a degree about the wider car scene, but for a Retro Rides type equivalent to the Warhammer fan mag it is worth remembering that most if us don't have money and none if us are cool. In fact I suspect unlike most scenes you couldn't just turn up in RR land having splashed a load of cash on the most expensive thing and win. Even if you could though I don't think it would preclude the possibility of doing something like 28mag. It is pretty much annual by the looks of things, so think of it as a yearly report about a given scene. With interviews, a bit of history deep dive, some event reports and opinion pieces,stuff like that. I might give it a go and see. You have a point there. However, "cool" is a very subjective thing, and niche at times. We have The Festival of the Unexceptional to remind us of that. In magazine form though, maybe that's a point, where such content wouldn't fare as well
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I'm going to quote someone from the 90s. "Even anti-fashion is a fashion and thus we hate it" Stuff like the "we are uncool" creates its own cool. And if you can't see that even in "the retro scene" there are "names" and "faces" then, well... I think the difference in the RR "clan" is we are all old enough to know better, we've seen all that scene curse word and we are done with it. But there is still cool and uncool. We are just not such asses about it now as we were 15 - 20 years ago Stuff like Festival of The Unexceptional is getting wider coverage and who knows what that will do to it. I hear it talked about in the US. Anyway... back to the point... I was once talking to the guys who put Practical Classics together, I forget who, a staff writer and sub ed I think. Anyway I remember the line "Yeah we are as bored of red MGB roadsters as you are but the advertisers like to see them on the cover, and we shift 20% more magazines when we do. Its a circulation thing" And I'm sure in each scene or genre there' the Red MGB Roadster Effect. And it leads to repitition. And that leads to things being stale. The human brain craves novelty. But it also needs consistency. Owners club magazines are a wonderful example of this. I get a couple still as I'm supporting a couple of clubs. But the mags, some poor sod has to put them together (I know from personal experience to be a thankless task) and then I wonder the service they provide in the modern age. I am travelling again. When I am on the continent I see German and Swedish car magazines and they look big and glossy and full of stuff I can't read. Is the mainland doing better at keeping its print media going for the scene or is it just a selection bias in my methodology looking at airport news stands?
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1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,188
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Aug 23, 2022 16:24:15 GMT
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I'm going to quote someone from the 90s. "Even anti-fashion is a fashion and thus we hate it" Other good points Indeed, I did wonder this myself. FotU started off small, but now is quite cool. I remember a writer/photography friend of mine said it was a place for 'sad geeks like us' to hang over, but its picked up momentum over the years. Maybe HubNut's growing popularity has played a part in that, or folks who simply do not car about Insta likes and have remained true to their philosophy of liking car for simple pleasures, or whatever. The chaps who setup PPC were one Will Holman and a Kevin Leaper. From what I've told from a few people, Will Holman was a bit of an . Arrogant, and up his own trumpet. I can kind of see why he left PC with Danny Hopkins running the show, if this is true, as I can imagine both are 'Alpha' characters. It would explain the alienation thing. A friend of mine tried to help him fix his E39 530d when it had a flat spot issue, but I understand he was quite hard to deal with, so my friend gave up. He was a Master Technician for BMW at the time, and helped out alot of chaps (heyho if you remember him from the TA days ; I had the last of his 'iffy' batteries until 2 years ago). Kev I have met many times and he is a pretty standup guy, and what IMHO magazine writers should be like. Open to suggestion, easy to get along with, and helpful. It's a shame he is out of work now TBH. You'd like to think both of them however would find someone who would take them, or maybe they could try what others are doing , media wise. Mankee Cheung is also a pretty sound chap, who was a regular contributor. I really enjoyed his company the few times I met him, and the insight he had in the car world. Same for Rich Duisburg, who now runs MotoPunk. Some owners clubs are still quite good. While the Stag Owners Club had some funny folks in it, it did also -Get some good friendships going -Discounts and sources I'd not have found easily or on my doorstep ; that was worth the memebership alone TBH! -Archives to good testing around Stag issues ; a shame they are not public, but then I suppose it helps the cars value and gives revenue to keep the club going Regarding magazines and how European ones differ, I feel like the business model differs. To quote a friend who lives both here and in Germany 'Mr Joe Public can live with having a 10 year old 7 series in Germany as a CEO of a small company, or a 10 year old Fiesta in the countryside. We (UK) need the latest and the best 7 series, full of hookers to show 'how well we are doing' It's an attitude and a greed thing, which obviously is shown in the poor content. Kelsey I understand, went down a model of driving profit towards the Editor, at the cost of paying contributors a pittance. Shame really.
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Aug 23, 2022 20:05:50 GMT
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Regarding magazines and how European ones differ, I feel like the business model differs. To quote a friend who lives both here and in Germany 'Mr Joe Public can live with having a 10 year old 7 series in Germany as a CEO of a small company, or a 10 year old Fiesta in the countryside. We (UK) need the latest and the best 7 series, full of hookers to show 'how well we are doing' One of the guys who founded Aldi still drives (or was pretty recently still driving) a Mercedes W123 of some sort. He bought it new and hasn't worn it out yet...
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Last Edit: Aug 23, 2022 20:06:13 GMT by akku
1937 Austin Street Rod - 1941 Wolseley Not Rod - 1956 Humber Hawk - 1957 Daimler Conquest - 1966 Buick LeSabre - 1968 Plymouth Sport Fury - 1968 Ford Galaxie - 1969 Ford Country Squire - 1969 Mercury Marquis - 1970 Morris Minor - 1970 Buick Skylark - 1970 Ford Galaxie - 1971 Ford Galaxie - 1976 Continental Mark IV - 1976 Ford Capri - 1976 Rover V8 - 1994 Ford Fiesta
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