ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,188
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Strange one to put up on a car based forum, but I figured it's a ride and it's retro, so why not?
I'm debating buying a bike, upon passing my Direct Access. If I was sensible, I'd get a Yamaha XSR700. They're newish, reliably styled and have ABS, which for me, I think would be a good benefit as a newbie, and with roads being iffy these days. Yup, I'm after the retro look, and a hint towards the cafe racer look, despite the mixture of opinions over whether it's a quick fad or something which will stay in vogue for a while.
But, those XSRs seem to hold their cash, and it's a little more than I'd want to spend without playing a waiting game for the sale of my Honda, unless I resort to credit (albeit surprisingly cheaply at the moment). The MPG however, at a time like this, is very appealing. With the Honda doing 100MPG, the MT-07 I've ridden seems to get between 60-80MPG on average. Pretty impressive, and probably a motivator for using the bike more. Enough to save the cash over the purchase price? I have my doubts. I've also noticed not many are selling like they once were as well.
This brings me onto the BMW K75. I've heard a mixture of things about these including -Spline wear -A pig to manoeuvre in town, especially a fairing model (this would eventually come off with me anyway over time). -Not especially frugal. I think 35-40MPG is the norm?
But I can get one for around £1-2k, which is alot more appealing.
My questions are this -How true is the above about the K75s? If not, what can be done to improve them, and how frugal are they in the real world as a commuter bike? FWIW, I ride 10 miles a day as a round trip to work, which a mixture of town work, and dual carriageway. -What else is out there for the money? It seems ABS equipped bikes are quite strong money beyond the K75, which makes the XSR700 look like good value.
It's a silly reason to want ABS. I almost cocked up a move during my DAS training (the obstacle avoidance), and basically, I was told the ABS saved me from the bike sliding out on me. I could reign myself in more, and I have done since, but I also don't want to find the limits out too late on the road either, if someone decides to step out of the road, or do a stupid overtake etc. etc.. I also don't like how bike ABS doesn't work like car ABS (i.e you can't tell when it cuts in, or at least you couldn't on the MT-07, unless you specifically heard for the pump kicking in.)
You never know, this feeling to want a bigger bike may go away, but I doubt it.
Another thing. The above bike I may use to take my other tests on. The car has a trailer, and it may save me on retake costs in the long term (around £150 for 10-30 minutes use ATM).
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K75 is a slow, heavy, very old thing and will be worn out at the sort of money you're looking at. As a new rider I would , if affordable, go more modern. Best thing to do is examine what you want from motorcycling i.e. commuter, weekend enjoyment, combination etc.
If you want an all rounder that does high MPG you're really looking at something that is single or twin cylinder although an old steelie CBR600 or Thundercat 600 will give you 50+mpg if not thrashed.
Your difficulty will be getting something with ABS for cheap (1-2K). I've been riding for over 40 years and my offs in that time were either misjudgement by me, diesel on the road or your standard SMIDSY (Sorry Mate I Didn't See You). The last one hurt quite a bit! ABS wouldn't have helped me in any of those instances.
Like retro cars any bike over ten years old will likely need some minor jobs doing so factor that in.
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Needs a bigger hammer mate.......
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adam73bgt
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,856
Club RR Member Number: 58
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I wouldn't get too distracted by trying to get an ABS equipped bike, while no doubt there are situations where ABS would help, in 99% of cases, good forward observation and appropriate riding will probably be more helpful.
When I got my first big bike a couple years ago, I went down the 600 sports/tourer route as mentioned above, although I ended up with a Suzuki GSX600F as it was cheaper on insurance for me than a Honda CBR600F, if ridden carefully I'm sure it gets around 40-50 or so mpg and can still be fun and comfortable. Plus you can pick up any of the 600s for cheap, and there are naked versions if you don't want a fairing or lower bars. (I'm meant to be selling the Suzuki if you ever want to have a poke around it! 😅)
If you do want to go down the retro look though, depending on budget, it might be worth looking at the Royal Enfield Interceptor, Kawasaki W650/W800, Moto Guzzi V7 or one of the Triumph Bonneville's (probably a slightly older model given how they hold value).
The good thing I find about bikes over cars, is that there is quite a lot more interest and variety for your £!
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Last Edit: Jul 4, 2022 13:27:35 GMT by adam73bgt
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My CBR600 F3 does a comfortable 50mpg, previous SV650S K3 did similar but my Ducati 748SPS did about 25 at a push. The ABS issue isn't worth getting hung up on imho, the better brakes from something like a CBR600 or Thundercat will give you a bit more confidence.
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brc76
RR Helper
Posts: 1,106
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I also went more modern when I first got my big bike license, 955i (which at the time was only a few years old).
I wouldn't worry about the ABS too much, but would focus on a bike that is comfortable and maneuverable and you "gel" with.
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93fxdl
Posted a lot
Enter your message here...
Posts: 1,991
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Have to admit I am biased Have you considered a kawasaki zrx Retro styling, modern running gear, and if you look after it, will not loose money Alongside my 1982 z1000 Ttfn Glenn Ps not a clue on mpg as it's a play bike
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Last Edit: Jul 8, 2022 13:46:09 GMT by 93fxdl
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LowStandards
Club Retro Rides Member
Bigging Up The Sum Sum Man Since '99
Posts: 2,620
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Stick with your original plan of the K75
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what about an Enfield? 6 and a bit grand will get you a retro styled bike,ABS and EFI , 3 years warranty and 3 years RSA. admittedly they lack a little in power but thats easily remedied with big bore kits up to 865cc available along with a plethora of tuning handling and cosmetic upgrades.of course i could be biased
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Last Edit: Jul 8, 2022 15:01:00 GMT by Imperial
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,188
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Always great to see the responses. There are some things to think about for sure . Interesting to hear the opinions. My interest is waning from the K75, however. Maybe one day, but not for a first bike. K75 is a slow, heavy, very old thing and will be worn out at the sort of money you're looking at. As a new rider I would , if affordable, go more modern. Best thing to do is examine what you want from motorcycling i.e. commuter, weekend enjoyment, combination etc. If you want an all rounder that does high MPG you're really looking at something that is single or twin cylinder although an old steelie CBR600 or Thundercat 600 will give you 50+mpg if not thrashed. Your difficulty will be getting something with ABS for cheap (1-2K). I've been riding for over 40 years and my offs in that time were either misjudgement by me, diesel on the road or your standard SMIDSY (Sorry Mate I Didn't See You). The last one hurt quite a bit! ABS wouldn't have helped me in any of those instances. Like retro cars any bike over ten years old will likely need some minor jobs doing so factor that in. To answer a few of those (I've thought about it a little for a while now). The purpose will be as follows. -Commuter into work. That's a 10 mile round trip. My other site is a 50 mile round trip -A bike to take to meets (unless I'm wrong, the biker folks seem more easier going) -Something to even take on longer trips. This is something I'm nervous to do with the CG, mainly as it feels quite nervous! The blustery winds I can live with for the timebeing. This will be a rarity however I will say for now, -I expect to do 300 miles a month on it. -Something with good MPG. I'd consider anything above 50 quite good. Having my 325d having the same fuel bill per month as my Mondeo 2.5T did is quite depressing, with me not really thinking about the M3's MPG! That said, if the value/is more than what the MPG benefits are I'll reconsider. Over winter, this would be stored away. Rainy days I'll probably use it, now I have discovered waterproof outer clothing. -Good parts availability, with quality/genuine parts preferable. Having a house to fix as well, I'm aware that servicing and repairs etc. will also take up time of mine anyway. The XSR700 I considered as it takes in most of the above, along with the ABS. It's based on the MT-07, which from the one I used on my DAS, was doing between 60-80MPG. Pretty impressive along with enough grunt for me (for now...). It will however involve me borrowing some cash, but then again, fixing bikes month on month with technically 2 cars and a house as a project probably isn't wise! But then I suppose this isn't the place for wiseness! I wouldn't get too distracted by trying to get an ABS equipped bike, while no doubt there are situations where ABS would help, in 99% of cases, good forward observation and appropriate riding will probably be more helpful. When I got my first big bike a couple years ago, I went down the 600 sports/tourer route as mentioned above, although I ended up with a Suzuki GSX600F as it was cheaper on insurance for me than a Honda CBR600F, if ridden carefully I'm sure it gets around 40-50 or so mpg and can still be fun and comfortable. Plus you can pick up any of the 600s for cheap, and there are naked versions if you don't want a fairing or lower bars. (I'm meant to be selling the Suzuki if you ever want to have a poke around it! 😅) If you do want to go down the retro look though, depending on budget, it might be worth looking at the Royal Enfield Interceptor, Kawasaki W650/W800, Moto Guzzi V7 or one of the Triumph Bonneville's (probably a slightly older model given how they hold value). The good thing I find about bikes over cars, is that there is quite a lot more interest and variety for your £! Your last statement (bar me now getting into bikes) is one reason why I'm considering doing it. I'll probably leave getting a car for a while if I am honest. The ABS thing came from 3 reasons -Mod 1: As you know, locking up during the emergency stop and/or taking too long to stop is a fail. I'd say for a bike I can't ride on the road, it will be near impossible for me to learn when the breakaway point is on a bike I may ride on the test : I passed, but it did cost me another £150 to use the instructor's bike, which I was hoping to absorb into the purchase price ; I passed my Mod 1 the second time. The Mod 2 is still to come -Instructor basically sad on the avoidance section, the error I made (Braked on a corner, albeit I was trying to do 3 things at once then!) would have had me on my without the ABS, which I didn't even realise had kicked in. -2 friends (one a biker in Canada who swears by his for dirt trails, another an ex-biker due to spousal reasons) recommended it as well, citing the reason that even if it's 5-10% that you'll be bailed out via ABS for whatever reason, it's worth that. The Moto Guzzi V7 I was considering. Bonneville is a good shout as well. I may come and look at your bike at some point. I didn't realise you did your big bike test. My CBR600 F3 does a comfortable 50mpg, previous SV650S K3 did similar but my Ducati 748SPS did about 25 at a push. The ABS issue isn't worth getting hung up on imho, the better brakes from something like a CBR600 or Thundercat will give you a bit more confidence. A good shout. I've noticed CBR600s do actually hold their money quite well, but it seems most Hondas do! I also went more modern when I first got my big bike license, 955i (which at the time was only a few years old). I wouldn't worry about the ABS too much, but would focus on a bike that is comfortable and maneuverable and you "gel" with. The XSR700 I should gel with, as I quite liked the MT-07 which it is based on, and it's relatively light for a big bike. Reading some FB groups (maybe that was a mistake) it seems duggers argument was correct. It looks like a few K75s at the lower price point are pretty bodged up, even when sold through the circles.
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Last Edit: Jul 9, 2022 8:09:46 GMT by ChasR
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,188
Club RR Member Number: 170
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what about an Enfield? 6 and a bit grand will get you a retro styled bike,ABS and EFI , 3 years warranty and 3 years RSA. admittedly they lack a little in power but thats easily remedied with big bore kits up to 865cc available along with a plethora of tuning handling and cosmetic upgrades.of course i could be biased That is lovely, and probably the smarter money for me to buy. But it's more than I wish to spend.
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,188
Club RR Member Number: 170
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Well, I bought something today. Pending it getting shipped to me, more will be revealed later.
If someone however, fancies a tidy Honda CG125 ES, they know where to come.
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I cut my teeth as a despatch rider in London in the late 80s/early 90s and I don't think that fairings and panniers make a bike much more difficult around town but, when you're riding 9 - 10 hours a day, five days a week I s'pose you get quite familiar with your machine. I always went for big, shaft-drive, fully faired bikes - you really appreciate them on the motorway. I have only just hung up my spurs and got rid of my last bike; duggers is right about the K75, although a couple of mates loved them as despatch bikes. I am bit late to the party as you've already bought something but, I'd say the K1100LT would be a good choice - mine served me well for the last 15 years. I'm done with two wheels (at least for now) but, wish you all the best with your new steed.
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Last Edit: Jul 9, 2022 22:19:30 GMT by wildrover
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If you want a "retro" newish bike I would look no further than the Triumph Street Twin or Moto Guzzi V7. I test rode both but in the end went for a Trident 660 as it suited my brief a bit better (not too fussed by the retro styling and wanted a little more poke up top)
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adam73bgt
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,856
Club RR Member Number: 58
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Jul 16, 2022 12:52:10 GMT
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Well, I bought something today. Pending it getting shipped to me, more will be revealed later. If someone however, fancies a tidy Honda CG125 ES, they know where to come. Has it been delivered yet? 😉
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,188
Club RR Member Number: 170
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If you want a "retro" newish bike I would look no further than the Triumph Street Twin or Moto Guzzi V7. I test rode both but in the end went for a Trident 660 as it suited my brief a bit better (not too fussed by the retro styling and wanted a little more poke up top) I was looking at the Street Tripple as an older bike. Lack of ABS I was tempted to go without, but I also fancied something with MPG on its side, as the bike will be a commuter bike for me as well. I know without going faster, nothing will be as good as the CG125, but at least it will be superior to the cars, which do as follows -E46 M3 : Never done the trip so I'll base it on the ST220 ; That used to do 20-22MPG -E91 325d : Around 36-39MPG It's basically 5 miles, 1/2 dual carriageway and half town . The Triple however I did begin to consider along with the Motoguzzi V7 . 2 folks however reckon I'll probably get bored and want to go faster. Time will tell. I'd consider 70ish BHP to be quick enough for now! Well, I bought something today. Pending it getting shipped to me, more will be revealed later. If someone however, fancies a tidy Honda CG125 ES, they know where to come. Has it been delivered yet? 😉 Yup, a friend of mine delivered it to me the other day. Downside is, I want that Mod 2 to be done sooner now . I'm going down to Banbury now and again to learn the area, and some routes. A little testing on the CG125, but not too bad either I may come and check yours out mind you...
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adam73bgt
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 4,856
Club RR Member Number: 58
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Jul 17, 2022 13:00:10 GMT
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Ah curious to see what you've ended up with! On the power front I think it varies from person to person, I still find 70bhp fairly quick after 3 years, can't imagine how a mate manages to ride his bike with nigh on 200bhp 😅
Give me a shout sometime, I do need to get the Suzuki out and put some miles on it before it's up for sale 🙂
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PHUQ
Part of things
Posts: 859
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Jul 18, 2022 11:28:41 GMT
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Ah curious to see what you've ended up with! On the power front I think it varies from person to person, I still find 70bhp fairly quick after 3 years, can't imagine how a mate manages to ride his bike with nigh on 200bhp 😅 Give me a shout sometime, I do need to get the Suzuki out and put some miles on it before it's up for sale 🙂 Yeah, I'd agree with that, 70bhp is plenty for actual riding even if it's not enough for bragging rights in the pub. Most fun bike I've had was the 30- odd bhp Honda XBR500, you could really enjoy trying to get the best out of it while staying within or at least close to the speed limits. The current slab of XJR1300 (Yamaha's version of Glenn's Kawasaki) is frankly just a bit scary if you push on, although I love the look of it and it's great 2- up which is why I bought it. It's very docile if you want it to be though, to be honest I rarely get over about 3500rpm on it- bit of a waste really... Not one I'd recommend to a new rider, not so much because of the power but the weight (although I do have the upper body strength you'd normally associate with pipe cleaners which doesn't help). Somewhat irrelevant since you have something now, but a chap at work had an XSR700 after doing his test which he really liked and they look great (he's traded up to a massive BMW adventure- tourer thing now), and another guy who is a lifelong biker has an XSR900 which he thinks is brilliant, seems to be well made too (unlike mine) although he does look after his stuff.
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Last Edit: Jul 18, 2022 11:34:09 GMT by PHUQ
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Interested to see what you've bought!
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,188
Club RR Member Number: 170
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It seems a few are interested in what I bought here. I think the pestering from adam73bgt and absolutepony have given me the courage to show it. I wasn't going to as: -I supposed I stuck to my original plan and it didn't appear that I listened (well, I did ; I went for something more modern; possibly older to some or newer to some I suppose) -I figured it would be too new for here -This bike is still more than I have spent on most cars. Anyway, I digress: Yup, I went with the bike I set out to buy initially. A Yamaha XSR700. There were a few reasons behind this. -I did want a retro styled bike. Sure, it's not quite as pretty as a Moto Guzzi, but I think in a neo retro way, it's cool. I loved the XSR125 when I first saw one a while ago. -I accepted that the last thing I need now is another project; I actually listened to some advice I gave out elsewhere. The 325d may be a modern car here, but it's an old 14 year old car, and if I'm honest, it's still got niggles ; maybe that should join my daily 'fixing' cars struggle thread elsewhere. My M3 needs work in different ways (bodywork and driveshafts, I have parts for both, albeit the boywork may be partially or fully outsourced). With a house that's a little dated in areas and the general TLC a 1920s build house comes with, it was time to be realistic. I would also like to sort out the garage. The dusty floor really isn't a long term solution to work with. -Yamahas seem to be pretty reliable and spares are easily available. These also seem to have a great aftermarket network for parts and upgrades. It should be cheaper than one other bike I contemplated too (Ducati Monster, in either 600/620ie/695 or 696 flavour : I had my heart set on a 620ie for months) -Alot of you folks said something more modern was wise and prudent. I listened . Maybe having something sketchy with near no safety features isn't a wise move either -MPG is good. Maybe not as good as the Triumph Street Twin in hindsight, but I did manage to get 80MPG from the DAS provided MT-07. -The MT-07 I did my DAS on I actually didn't mind. It seemed to do what I wanted it to, but a streetfigther bike wasn't quite the look I wanted, or at least so full on. -The pace of this shouldn't bore me with 70BHP. The MT-07 really surprised me the first time I rode it, regarding power. -It should make for a decent touring bike. OK, it will never be as good as a faired bike, but a friend of mine with an XSR has done some big miles in his and likes his. My friend who prefers sports bikes found this one fine for wind, and that was a 6'3" giant! -A friend has one, and thought it was as good as he hoped ; also an RRer here . -This will be a commuter bike, replacing the CG125. So that's 10 to 60 mile round trips around 2-3 times a week. -It was the bike on the shortlist originally, but discounted quickly due to price I'll say more later about -Other choices, maybe I should have considered two more bikes in more detail -How this wasn't the first example I saw. It seems bikes age badly!
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Last Edit: Jul 21, 2022 16:25:54 GMT by ChasR
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