cjhillman
Posted a lot
1979 Capri (Rolling Project) 1985 Escort mk3 (Daily)
Posts: 1,580
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Apr 25, 2022 21:27:57 GMT
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As i'm on a quest to get my Escort mk3 running as good as I can I need to learn how to properly set the points up and learn how to make sure I have the right points/condenser. Firstly, looking at a set of points and a NOS condenser that I'm told (by ebay) was for my Car. I can't see any markings on either of them so i'm wondering how I know for sure if they are for my Car? I bought these a couple of years ago, I think the points are Intermotor.  Secondly, I understand how they are basically fitted from reading the manual and I've heard all the storys of using a cig packet to set the gaps etc but I'm getting a bit bogged down with dwell angle. A few years ago when I dropped it off to my trusted garage for points/condenser as it was running terribly they said you wouldnt be able to set them at home as you need a special gauge (so they mentioned to my Dad when he picked it up). They're old guys and we trust them so I can only imagine they were talking about setting the dwell? I havent got anything I can set this with like a Gunsons Testune and I'm wondering If I should buy one or its a waste of money? For the Bosch distributor that I have it says the settings are. 0.4 - 0.5mm (0.16-0.020 in) Dwell angle 48 to 52 degrees. Its going to be an absolute pain working on this as the distributor is around the back of the engine. To change the condensor it mentions marking the distributor, unclamping it and moving it about 90 degrees to get to it. After this put it back and re time it. Any good basic videos I should watch? Also anyone done this on the 1.1 Ford Fiesta/Escort engine? Cheers! |
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I wouldn't change the condenser unless it is broken, there's some real Chinese curse word out there now even with OE manufacturers names on them, same goes for points as well especially off ebay. As you no doubt know, dwell is set by adjusting the points so I'd set them at manufacturers spec and leave it. On that type of engine I always used to go for around 25thou but probably best to set it at 20 as your guide says.
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Apr 26, 2022 11:46:17 GMT
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I discovered recently that the relevance of the points gap is purely to set the dwell angle, and the dwell angle is more important because that is what controls how long the coil has to charge up. So if you find that the dwell angle is too short at the recommended points gap, adjust the points gap to get the dwell angle correct. Points aren't like spark plugs, they're just an on-off switch. Adjusting the gap is easier - a feeler gauge instead of a dwell meter - hence manufacturers go down that route instead.
Keep an eye on your local car boot sale - I find all sorts of old test equipment at mine for pennies. The sort of stuff that motorists in the 60s and 70s would have bought to do their weekend adjustments and servicing, and isn't relevant to modern cars.
As for whether they're correct for the car, you can't really tell until you compare them to the ones already on it, unless you can find other photos of them in place.
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Last Edit: Apr 26, 2022 11:53:08 GMT by droopsnoot
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cjhillman
Posted a lot
1979 Capri (Rolling Project) 1985 Escort mk3 (Daily)
Posts: 1,580
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Apr 26, 2022 12:31:16 GMT
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Cheers for the advice so far! This is great. I do want to try and get a photo of the points either today or tomorrow as I want to check the condition of them myself. They have definitely been in there since 2019 or 2018. I'm noticing its jogging a lot at the moment and doesnt have the best idle (warm or cold) then sometimes it ok. As I remember this is what it did the first time I discovered the car actually had points!!! I thought it was too modern haha!
The reason I mention replacing the condenser is the last time I left it with the garage they said the points were fine but the condenser wasnt great so they swapped that. First time round it was just the points I think. On my Dads Spitfire It slowed to a stop once and we just replaced the condenser and it fired up and ran great. I thought with this knowledge maybe I should replace it all and start fresh seen as its round the back in an awkward place.
Interesting about the dwell angle. Its something I've not really thought about before just always heard about the gap like on plugs but I've heard of the term.
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cjhillman
Posted a lot
1979 Capri (Rolling Project) 1985 Escort mk3 (Daily)
Posts: 1,580
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Apr 26, 2022 18:00:53 GMT
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I just nipped out and took some photos of the points. Not sure if anything can can be told from this but here they are...  Looks like there could be a tiny black spot on the contacts maybe.  Also looking at the condenser something I forgot about was this odd box at the side of it. I remember seeing this before and thinking I wont bother with this.  As you can see the one I have and all the other ive ever seen don't have that so I'm guessing need to be cut and spliced?  This has to be one of the worst dizzy caps to get on and off ever. My Capri is so much better than this. |
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I'm guessing that the "odd box" is a radio interference suppressor.
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cjhillman
Posted a lot
1979 Capri (Rolling Project) 1985 Escort mk3 (Daily)
Posts: 1,580
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I did wonder if it was something like that. I'll give it a google. Couldnt find anything last night.
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melle
South West
It'll come out in the wash.
Posts: 1,983
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I would only replace the condenser if the spark is red/ weak, especially if the new one is a no name/ aftermarket one as they're usually curse word nowadays.
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squonk
Part of things
Posts: 855
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I'm guessing that the "odd box" is a radio interference suppressor. It is a supressor, I was a car radio installer in the 80's and remember them well. |
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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Apr 27, 2022 17:55:26 GMT
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Can only echo what the others have said. No point in changing stuff that's working. What you need is a spare set in the glove box and a screwdriver incase you ever have an issue. Clean the contacts and check the gap regularly as that sets your dwell angle otherwise enjoy the simplicity.
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What you need is a spare set in the glove box and a screwdriver in case you ever have an issue. I'd agree with that, although I'd probably suggest swapping the two over and setting it up / getting it running, then keep the ones you've taken out as the spares. At this point, the new ones are an unknown quantity and, if there's a question over the quality of new parts, it would be annoying to go to the trouble of keeping them in the car only to discover they're no use when you need them. |
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cjhillman
Posted a lot
1979 Capri (Rolling Project) 1985 Escort mk3 (Daily)
Posts: 1,580
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Apr 28, 2022 14:04:43 GMT
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I'm guessing that the "odd box" is a radio interference suppressor. It is a supressor, I was a car radio installer in the 80's and remember them well. Thanks for clarifying that mate and cheers for everyone for their advice on this. I'll probably just give it a go when I get some free time. they've all been in there a few years (not sure what the condenser is) but its all non original stuff. |
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cjhillman
Posted a lot
1979 Capri (Rolling Project) 1985 Escort mk3 (Daily)
Posts: 1,580
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Apr 28, 2022 14:08:06 GMT
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Quick update, I went to meet a made whos into his old Cars this morning and has experience with points etc. He had a look and didnt think they looked bad the points. Also we checked the gap and it was still fine.
I do have a set of spare points and a Condenser in the Car (probably will buy a second set today too) its more the fact with this unit that its all round the back so if its dark etc It would be a nightmare to work on. It doesnt seem that friendly in the day to be honest.
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Apr 28, 2022 17:05:25 GMT
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its more the fact with this unit that its all round the back so if its dark etc It would be a nightmare to work on. It doesnt seem that friendly in the day to be honest. I would say you're more likely to have to swap the condenser in an emergency than the points - points tend to wear or close their gap up gradually rather than fail all of a sudden, especially if you keep an eye on them. I had a condenser fail on mine and the engine just cut out straight away. I think you could, therefore, extend the wire on the condenser to bring it somewhere a bit more accessible, since it's already outside of the distributor. With some care you could make it really easy to change the condenser. I'm not an electronics expert by a long way, but I can't see why a longer wire would cause a problem. |
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cjhillman
Posted a lot
1979 Capri (Rolling Project) 1985 Escort mk3 (Daily)
Posts: 1,580
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Apr 28, 2022 17:37:35 GMT
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its more the fact with this unit that its all round the back so if its dark etc It would be a nightmare to work on. It doesnt seem that friendly in the day to be honest. I would say you're more likely to have to swap the condenser in an emergency than the points - points tend to wear or close their gap up gradually rather than fail all of a sudden, especially if you keep an eye on them. I had a condenser fail on mine and the engine just cut out straight away. I think you could, therefore, extend the wire on the condenser to bring it somewhere a bit more accessible, since it's already outside of the distributor. With some care you could make it really easy to change the condenser. I'm not an electronics expert by a long way, but I can't see why a longer wire would cause a problem. Thats an interesting idea. I wonder if the smaller black wire in this case needs to be closer to the points than the coil side wire? Does anyone know? Its definitely not a job you could do in the dark/emergency as the manual states turning it 120 degrees out then re timing it. I cant remember if I wrote it somewhere before but I had that same experience with my Dads triumph spitfire. I was driving along nicely and all of a sudden it just died and costed to a stop. Luckily I wasnt far from his house so he came out and we chanced that it was the condenser. Fired straight up! He has swapped to electronic ignition now but I think he wonders if he should have kept with points. |
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snoopy
Part of things
Posts: 69
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Apr 28, 2022 18:57:26 GMT
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A failed condenser will not run a failing condenser will mean a larger spark at the points so they burn away faster, if working fine as others say old parts are best left fitted.
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