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Sept 12, 2021 12:15:49 GMT
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I was reading earlier about replacing the wet cambelt on a Ford Ecoboost 1.0 engine and it seems a very involved job, my wife has a Focus with this engine and its 5 years old so in 5 years if we still have it (which hopefully we will) then it will be a job for me as its seems to be hugely expensive to have it done as its a long job.
One of the items that they mentioned was you need a Torque Multipler to tighten the crank bolt and one website listed the figure as:
The original torque multiplier has a true torque multiplication ratio of 5:1 However because of the gearbox losses of the torque multiplier itself the actual gear ratio will be approximately 5.45:1
Using the original torque multiplier Ford prescribes to perform the following steps:
1. Torque to 60 Nm (at the input shaft of the torque multiplier). 2. Stage 1 90 degrees (at the input shaft of the torque multiplier). Stage 2 90 degrees (at the input shaft of the torque multiplier). Stage 3 90 degrees (at the input shaft of the torque multiplier). Stage 4 90 degrees (at the input shaft of the torque multiplier). Stage 5 90 degrees (at the input shaft of the torque multiplier).
This should result in the following figures without using the torque multiplier:
1. Torque to 300 Nm (at the crankshaft pully bolt). 2. Stage 1 16.5 degrees (at the crankshaft pully bolt). Stage 2 16.5 degrees (at the crankshaft pully bolt). Stage 3 16.5 degrees (at the crankshaft pully bolt). Stage 4 16.5 degrees (at the crankshaft pully bolt). Stage 5 16.5 degrees (at the crankshaft pully bolt).
There was a bit of a discussion about whether the converted figures were right but in principle I wanted to ask whether there was any need for the torque multiplier if we have a torque wrench that can do the bolt upto the inital torque required and then a large enough bar to turn the bolt the required degrees of rotation? The torque multipliers are around £800 at the moment although I suspect will come down when this job becomes more common and hence more tools are sold.
A lot of people were citing this as a reason you can't do the job yourself but to me it just seems like the tool is there to make it easier for people who do it reguarly but with a decent 3/4 socket and drive and possibly a scaffold tube there isn't any reason I can't do this myself?
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Sept 12, 2021 12:58:12 GMT
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You should also ask yourself how you are going to hold the pulley/crank still while you tighten the bolt. I presume the special tool makes provision for this?
The sort of torques you are quoting will take some holding and you don’t want to be passing them down the crank or through the clutch/ gearbox.
My TDI A6 has specs quoted of 200Nm stage 1 followed by 270 degrees. The factory tool engages in splines in the pulley and bolts to the front of the block. It also has a very long and substantial reaction bar to work against. Without this I was reduced to sticking it in 6th gear and swinging on a 3/4” drive T-bar and scaffold tube. I managed just over 180 degrees and was almost tearing the engine off its mounts….
Luckily that seemed to be enough and it lasted 75k until the next change. The memory was still strong enough at that point to pay someone else to do it!
Nick
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend) 1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing) 1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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Sept 12, 2021 13:23:00 GMT
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No reason at all not to DIY, lock the car in it's highest gear and lock the discs in the calipers and you'll have more than enough torque lock to play with.
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Sept 12, 2021 19:43:51 GMT
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You'll need to work out how to lock the engine and do that it should say how to in the service proceedure, then I see no reason why not to just use a higher capacity torque wrench.
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,812
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Sept 13, 2021 22:56:00 GMT
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I build a lot of these. Without a torque multipler you haven't got a prayer. First one I did I though "ha that's a easy way out and went and got the 7 foot long 1" driver breaker bar out. 2 of us proceeded to hang off it without any movement in the bolt at all. You can just about do the first 90 and a bit more with a bar.
No idea what the method they use for locking them up in situ is. I'm always out on a engine frame and use a starter motor pinion gear bolted through one of the engine stand legs locked into the flywheel teeth, then 3 of us to do the bolt up (one stood on the engine frame to stop it twisting up, one holding the arm of the torque multiplier and one doing the turning). There is a similar thing in the locking pin kit but it's nowhere near robust enough to hold it.
Its a really really stupid design for what otherwise is a really basic engine build. Make sure you get a new bolt with a diamond washer too.
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,812
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Sept 13, 2021 22:59:33 GMT
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Oh and if you're not using Ford's own oil in it you'll probably find it blows up well before 10 years. With other brands the backing comes off the cambelt and clogs the oil strainer up.
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Sept 14, 2021 8:00:09 GMT
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Interesting to read that it's not just us Audi i5 owners that have to go through such a rigmarole.
I did read a note on the Audi engine when I was doing mine that sticking it in gear and locking the brakes isn't a good idea because the drivetrain isn't designed to cope with the amount of torque that the tightening procedure is putting through it. I guess that will vary from engine to engine.
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Sept 14, 2021 11:22:57 GMT
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Must be an Audi thing generally. A looooong time ago a mate and I replaced the engine in a UR quattro for a used one for his gf's dad, after the original fired a Conrod onto the battery tray. After failing to undo the crank pulley, some research found that they're done up to 245ftlbs
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Sept 14, 2021 15:58:21 GMT
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reading all this and hearing their issues all the time, I'd just get shot asap!
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Sept 14, 2021 16:05:39 GMT
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They're definitely on my no go list, my cousins has just shat its oil pump due to the wet belt falling apart, 49K miles with full Ford history.
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,812
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Sept 14, 2021 17:40:59 GMT
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They're one of the few engines where I think it's a real shame that they're curse word. They're so small they'd be a great no cutting needed replacement for something like a A series or 100E side valve for a 8 points safe power hike.
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Sept 14, 2021 19:11:48 GMT
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Yeah on paper it's great, and it apparently fits on an a4 piece of paper. Sadly 3 pots are inherently unstable due to the frequencies involved.
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Sept 14, 2021 22:18:41 GMT
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if they wanted to oil things they should have stuck to metal chains, if they want belts keep the bloody things out of the oil!
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,812
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Sept 14, 2021 22:29:29 GMT
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if they wanted to oil things they should have stuck to metal chains, if they want belts keep the bloody things out of the oil! You'd have thought after 5he 1.8 diesel Ford would learn that they're plop, but they've also done the same on the 2.0 Ecoblue Transit engines since the Ecoboost and the belt falls to bits in those too.
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Sept 15, 2021 20:49:53 GMT
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There are 2 belts on the autos, one for the oil pump which goes, the manuals just have the one belt, we've taken loads of the manual ones to over 150k miles with no problems they don't seem to have a cam belt issue.
Amazing performance for a 1.0, our latest fiesta is rated at 140hp!
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,812
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Sept 16, 2021 11:51:39 GMT
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There are 2 belts on the autos, one for the oil pump which goes, the manuals just have the one belt, we've taken loads of the manual ones to over 150k miles with no problems they don't seem to have a cam belt issue. Amazing performance for a 1.0, our latest fiesta is rated at 140hp! I thought they all had 2 belts, every one I've seen has, both autos and manuals.
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Sept 16, 2021 16:00:16 GMT
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The manual has 2 belts
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Sept 16, 2021 20:42:00 GMT
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I checked my notes, one has a stretch belt and one has a tensioner (these are fiesta engines made in the last 3 or 4 years) I think it was the tensioner on the auto causing the belt to fail, I'll check next week.
Appart from this the ones we have had in the last 5 years or so have been pretty reliable especially the re-enginered version in the new Focus the earlier ones were not so good..
Even the low power 100ps would be superb in a minor or mini, I guess aftermarket injection will cost a fortune for direct injection though.
Going back to the original point, is it a specific torque multiplier? I thought they were pretty widely used for trucks etc.
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Last Edit: Sept 16, 2021 21:28:40 GMT by kevins
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Sept 16, 2021 21:38:35 GMT
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ah yes the lovely ecoboom !! get it done long before they are due 10 years is just stupid on these engines , they are really not that good sadly drive really nice and make great power for what they are but poor in the design department i have changed all sorts on these i have done belts on load of these in fiestas and focus's and i wouldnt even think about doing it with out the correct locking kit and torque multiplier which are a mega bit of kit which is a must it that simple you just wont do it and haveing done them with out and with the correct tools i wouldnt even contemplate it with out again .
the problem with useing a normal torque wrench , power bar , impact or air gun on these is that the crank pully will move against the crank as you tighten it and on these engines the crank sensor pics up of the back of the crank pulley so it needs to be timed up with the crank and cams all together otherwise the engine will not read tdc correctly its just so easy with the multiplier and ive have done them with out and its not fun
I'm trade so we can hire locking tools on day rate from a few motor factors local id have a luck in to that think we only pay £25 a day
they all have two belts the main belt and the oil pump belt that runs of the back of the bottom pulley and down to the oil pump this needs doing at the same time i also always take the sump of and clean out the pick up pipe as it will be full of belt fragments /strands which is half the problems these engines suffer from as the engine gets starved of oil probable down to the wrong oil being used which speeds up the the breakdown of the belts as the belt runs in the engine oil what a brilliant idea the correct oil must be used as a result
as above use a new stretch bolt and friction washer no brainer
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1978 mk2 escort mexico
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stealthstylz
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 14,812
Club RR Member Number: 174
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Sept 17, 2021 5:27:30 GMT
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Going back to the original point, is it a specific torque multiplier? I thought they were pretty widely used for trucks etc. I use a generic torque multiplier rather than a Ford one. Looks like its about 50 years old but works really well.
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