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Aug 25, 2021 13:35:42 GMT
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Hotwire et al I'm not sure what section this belongs in - feel free to move as you see fit if it doesn't belong here
I'm in a hole at the moment with a severe lack of storage, looking at industrial units to buy in my area they are both expensive and no good for my intended use - basically secure storage for my motorbikes, caravan and vehicles. Does anybody have experience with buying several acres of agricultural land and putting a steel frame barn on it to use for this purpose? Would also like to put up some stables for renting to the equestrian set. Planning for agricultural use buildings used to be straightforward but what counts? Could I do that then do change of use or just keep quiet? Do I need planning permission for some caravan storage for example
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Aug 25, 2021 13:46:10 GMT
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Interesting question, I found some land with a fallen down building for sale recently - it's cheap as well - but it's only cheap if you can put a house on it lol.
I cant help with your question, but might be useful to say which council the land would fall under & if it's green belt or not - those can make a big difference.
I'd imagine if planning went in saying it's all for equestrian use it might sneak through a bit better (horse trailer storage barn... lol)
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misteralz
Posted a lot
I may drive a Volkswagen, but I'm scene tax exempt!
Posts: 2,338
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Aug 25, 2021 14:54:49 GMT
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Depends entirely where you are and how the land is zoned. Also be aware that different regulations apply in different regions and countries. I was able to build an 8x12m agricultural workshop without planning back when I lived in Aberdeenshire as the land I had was zoned as agricultural, and where I placed it was more than however many metres away from my boundary and the nearest road. If I'd've gone higher than 4.5m I'd've needed planning permission, so it ended up being 4,495mm high... In England and Wales there used to be the planning portal website where you could find out exactly what you could build without planning permission, but I suspect that's probably more for residential stuff. First stop is the land registry, find out how it's zoned, and go from there.
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misteralz
Posted a lot
I may drive a Volkswagen, but I'm scene tax exempt!
Posts: 2,338
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Aug 25, 2021 15:01:16 GMT
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Also, don't take the curse word too much. How you apply for permission matters. Calling it storage is gonna trip you up if they ask for proof of you actually having anything agricultural to store. Calling it a workshop is less likely to if you can show some pictures of your tools, lathe, and the 135 you've already bought.
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Aug 25, 2021 16:18:23 GMT
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Also, don't take the curse word too much. How you apply for permission matters. Calling it storage is gonna trip you up if they ask for proof of you actually having anything agricultural to store. Calling it a workshop is less likely to if you can show some pictures of your tools, lathe, and the 135 you've already bought. 2 grey Fergies and a B250 already...
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Aug 25, 2021 16:23:29 GMT
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My understanding is that if you can find something with an existing building, barn etc, no matter how dilapidated, it's far easier to reinstate said building rather than a new building, again probably area dependant
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Paul Y
Posted a lot
Posts: 1,948
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Aug 25, 2021 17:40:41 GMT
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Have friends who are farmers. They put up all sorts of barns, stables etc on the premise that are not 'permanent structures'. Put down a base, Attach steel 'feet' around perimeter of said base at about the right spacing to bolt structure to. If planning man ever says take it down, unbolt and move to another base - rinse and repeat Electricity comes from solar panels and batteries, large diesel generators and extension cords. Water is a stand pipe. Know Nigel for 20+ years and, to date, he has never had any issues. Think the key is to not take the curse word. PLUS! After 7 years without complaint don't they become permissible? Or you could always buy an old garage in Wales.... P.
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Aug 25, 2021 21:33:43 GMT
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I built my garage12.5x 8x 6.5 in the green belt with full planning permission about 6 years ago. It is in the field behind my house. Before I did anything I went to see the planning guy for my area with a map of my property and sketch of what I wanted and what I wanted it for- keeping rally car etc.
I asked him if it was something he would support as I said I would not apply if he did not think it was possible. He was so pleased that someone had asked him his opinion before applying that he told me how to apply for it. He was happy to push the boundary of the green belt as I live on the edge of it but he did not want a garage sat in the middle of the field.
I had drawings done and submitted them and 6 weeks later I had full planning approval.
Before I moved to our current house I was hoping to by another place in the country and asked the planning guy for that area if I could extend the house and build a garage and he was adamant that I could not.
So I guess what I’m saying is speak to the planning guy first so you know where you stand.
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Aug 26, 2021 12:03:17 GMT
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The other thing is Horsey stuff is not classed as agriculture, they are leisure so that opens up more planning issues
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Aug 26, 2021 18:27:35 GMT
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I was under the impression you could only put up a structure after showing a need for it , so having a tractor would mean you would need evidence of using it for its intended purpose.
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Aug 26, 2021 19:46:43 GMT
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I have zero idea & clearly neither does anyone else, so I’d say ask an expert
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madmog
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 1,153
Club RR Member Number: 46
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Aug 26, 2021 20:42:09 GMT
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(edit) So I guess what I’m saying is speak to the planning guy first so you know where you stand. In a lot of places now the council has commercialized the 'asking the council's opinion' route as something called a pre-app where you ask their informal advice and have to pay them for their non-binding opinion.
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Aug 27, 2021 12:10:21 GMT
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dodgerover this is the sort of thing I do for a living, so I can give some advice. I see from your profile you are in West Sussex, so I assume that is where you are looking for land. There are certain agricultural permitted development rights which allow a farmer to put up barns, sheds etc and put in tracks and hard standing without needing planning permission - but these only exist for agricultural holdings larger than 5 hectares (on smaller holdings, you can only extend existing buildings.) Under permitted development rights, it is not simply a matter of putting up a building - you have to apply to the local authority for what is known as Prior Approval - where they basically check it meets the criteria that make it permitted development, including convincing them that it is "reasonably necessary for the purposes of agriculture". If you were to find a piece of agricultural land greater than 5 hectares - and obtained Prior Approval for a building - there is a risk that should you use it for storing stuff that isn't for agriculture, the local authority might enforce against you and require you to take the building down. As gtviva says above - equestrian use is not classed as agriculture, so a change of use planning permission would be needed for permanent stables and strictly, for grazing horses (although this tends to be ignored). Most horsey types seem to use mobile stables, which can be shifted round a paddock to get round the need for permission for a permanent building. In my opinion, its going to be tough to find an affordable piece of land of more than 5 acres in the south of England - and there is always the risk that Prior Approval won't be granted if the local authority don't accept that the land is truly being used for agriculture. Good luck with the search for storage. By the way, there are different rules in Scotland and (I think) Wales, so if you were looking farther afield it may be a little easier. cheers Cortinaman
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Old Fords never die they just go sideways
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norm75
Part of things
Posts: 658
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Aug 27, 2021 14:30:43 GMT
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I am in West Sussex and work on a farm a couple of days a week. I was talking to the chap that owns the farm a few weeks ago, a friend of his rents a barn on a farm, and has a few classics stored in there. He would like to buy the barn, but my friend (the farm owner) says he needs to be careful, because it is not technically being used for agricultural use and if the council find out he may encounter problems.
Fields and farm land in West Sussex is not cheap. Neighbouring property owners also view incomers as outsiders, and if they get wind of things being used for the wrong purpose, expect a visit from the authorities.
It is also not unheard of to have spotting planes flying over checking what exactly is going on on farm land.
I believe Richard Hammond encountered problems with his local authority for storing cars and bikes in his outbuildings.
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Aug 27, 2021 14:49:56 GMT
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I can't remember which authority it was, but one council actually chartered a helicopter so they could overfly properties looking for buildings without planning permission! Sounds a good use of funds to me? 🙄
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norm75
Part of things
Posts: 658
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Aug 27, 2021 14:53:41 GMT
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Probably use drones nowadays.
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norm75
Part of things
Posts: 658
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Aug 27, 2021 14:59:13 GMT
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I can't remember which authority it was, but one council actually chartered a helicopter so they could overfly properties looking for buildings without planning permission! Sounds a good use of funds to me? 🙄 I have heard of one guy that built a house inside a farm shed and left it there for a few years to get around the rule where a building erected without planning can remain in place if it hasn’t been challenged for a certain amount of time, called the five year or ten year rule or something. He was fined something like £180,000 so that would cover the cost of chartering a helicopter I should think.
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Aug 27, 2021 15:16:20 GMT
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Yeah I suppose it would norm75, but how many flights actually get a result? Sounds like a jolly to me A council? Wasting money?? Perish the thought! 😀 ( With apologies to the op for going waaay off topic!)
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Aug 27, 2021 16:43:34 GMT
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Its quite common for a farm to raise a building in the corner of a field and then a number of years later build a house or similar on the same plot. Whether you would get away with simply buying a small plot purely to build on could be unlikely.
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Aug 27, 2021 18:06:00 GMT
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I can't remember which authority it was, but one council actually chartered a helicopter so they could overfly properties looking for buildings without planning permission! Sounds a good use of funds to me? 🙄 I have heard of one guy that built a house inside a farm shed and left it there for a few years to get around the rule where a building erected without planning can remain in place if it hasn’t been challenged for a certain amount of time, called the five year or ten year rule or something. He was fined something like £180,000 so that would cover the cost of chartering a helicopter I should think. Yes & they are making him take the house down (if it hasn’t already been) it ended up at something like the Supreme Court & cost him fortunes
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