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According to the RAC, there will be makes of cars that will not be compatible with the E10 petrol and users should be made aware of them
These are the 10 models that will have the most registered E10-incompatible cars in 2020, according to the RAC Foundation (number of cars in brackets):
1. Volkswagen Golf (28,066)
2. MG MGB (20,890)
3. Mazda MX-5 (18,162)
4. Nissan Micra (15,785)
5. Morris Minor (12,796)
6. Rover 25 (9,879)
7. MG MGF (9,352)
8. Ford Escort (8,947)
9. Rover Mini (7,614)
10. MG TF (7,568)
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ChasR
RR Helper
motivation
Posts: 10,189
Club RR Member Number: 170
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E10 petrolChasR
@chasr
Club Retro Rides Member 170
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Trust Rover to have so many on their cars in the top 10!
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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E10 petrolslater
@slater
Club Retro Rides Member 78
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RAC publicity hunting.
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Most of what has been said in the press about this is rubbish, Ethanol has been in the marketplace in other parts of the world since the 70's, most of the cars in that list were sold globally and would have been ethanol compliant form day one. The older carb equipped cars can generally be made compatible cheaply by replacing any rubber parts with ethanol resistant ones, using them regularly to stop the fuel absorbing water and draining the fuel when in storage.
These figures come from manufacturers who largely would see this as an opportunity to flog you a newer car and divulge themselves of any responsibility for faults in older cars.
That said my personal experience so far in both a 6 month old fiesta and a 24 year old mx5 is they both seem to do worse MPG on E10 so the super unleaded won't work out much more expensive anyway.
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Aug 11, 2021 10:56:50 GMT
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I like the 'volkswagen golf' and 'ford escort'. Nothing like being vague to reinforce your 'statistics' How many cars are we including there? 🙄
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Aug 11, 2021 11:34:03 GMT
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I doubt the classic Mini, Minor and MGB would be affected by it much, since they are such low-tech engines and carbs, though it may well exacerbate the typical MGB running-on problem.
In any case, I have a spare engine and carbs should the worst happen...
I'm slightly more worried about using it in my 2008 Abarth Grande Punto, even though I read a DVLA guideline that says any Abarth models after 2008 should be fine. Again though, I have a spare engine just in case!
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paul99
Part of things
Posts: 410
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Aug 11, 2021 11:56:27 GMT
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I like the 'volkswagen golf' and 'ford escort'. Nothing like being vague to reinforce your 'statistics' How many cars are we including there? 🙄 Rover/MG not having made any cars for 16 years, never mind Ford Escorts (20+) Morris Minors (near 50)....., hardly a huge problem for most people......
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Aug 11, 2021 12:19:44 GMT
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I like the 'volkswagen golf' and 'ford escort'. Nothing like being vague to reinforce your 'statistics' How many cars are we including there? 🙄 Rover/MG not having made any cars for 16 years, never mind Ford Escorts (20+) Morris Minors (near 50)....., hardly a huge problem for most people...... True, but then these days 'most people' don't have a clue what goes on under the bonnet, and care less, so long as it starts when they turn the key.... Witness the greatest number of reasons for a breakdown being misfuelling
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Aug 11, 2021 12:51:16 GMT
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I doubt the classic Mini, Minor and MGB would be affected by it much, since they are such low-tech engines and carbs, though it may well exacerbate the typical MGB running-on problem. In any case, I have a spare engine and carbs should the worst happen... I'm slightly more worried about using it in my 2008 Abarth Grande Punto, even though I read a DVLA guideline that says any Abarth models after 2008 should be fine. Again though, I have a spare engine just in case! in For the older cars all they need is some decent rubber fuel line like cohline (that's the important bit because it has the potential to torch your car) a new fuel pump diaphragm and possibly jets and floats in the carbs which are all available from Burlen (and have been for some years). Most of the corrosion issues come from leaving it standing and the fuel absorbing water, so basically only put in as much fuel as you need for a each given trip and if you plan to not use it for any length of time drain it or add some stabiliser.
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Aug 11, 2021 13:13:41 GMT
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Does E10 fuel go off as fast as the regular stuff? That seems to create problems with newer engines, although I've managed to get older stuff to start with fuel that's been left in it for years Iirc current (non E10) fuel only has a lifespan of about 8 weeks?
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slater
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 6,390
Club RR Member Number: 78
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E10 petrolslater
@slater
Club Retro Rides Member 78
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Aug 11, 2021 13:29:21 GMT
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All petrol 'goes off' ethonol or no ethonol. It's not that it will go off 'faster' because its E10 and not E5 it's just that more of it is able to react like ethonol reacts so once it's gone off the gone off E10 will be a different composition (with potentially a bit more water in it) than the gone off E5 would be. Both will still be useless gone off fuel with water in it. The outcome is basically the same.
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Aug 11, 2021 13:42:52 GMT
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I highly doubt there will be that many 'incompatible' vehicles,its more likely that they are near or over 20 years old, the manufacturers either don't know nor care.
All these cars wont just stop working when you feed them E10.
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jamesd1972
Club Retro Rides Member
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Club RR Member Number: 40
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E10 petroljamesd1972
@jamesd1972
Club Retro Rides Member 40
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Aug 11, 2021 15:01:06 GMT
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Simple answer is to use superplus in the meantime. No ethanol to cause any of the issues with incompatibility or gum up the carb if left etc. So good for lawnmowers etc. or lightly used classics especially just before being shoved in the shed at the end of the year. Costs money but non issue. James
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Aug 11, 2021 20:35:38 GMT
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The issue with ethanol is mainly around non-compatible o-rings in fuel systems, non-compatible plastic tanks, and stuff that uses lead solder for things like carb floats, fuel tanks, and carb plugs. Replace these and you're fine.
It does absorb water, and is less energy dense so you'll get worse mileage. It's also cheaper, but I doubt we'll see any of that passed on to us. Oh, and it's higher octane than regular petrol.
You can remove ethanol from fuel by putting some dye into water and adding it to the fuel. After a while it'll absorb the ethanol and separate from the rest of the fuel and you can drain it away. It'll be lower octane though. You can add octane boosters back in, but some of them are just ethanol anyway so careful you're not paying a tenner to add it all back in!
Oh, and as for the MGF and TF there was some talk on an MG forum about looking at which part numbers in the fuel system are different between the F, TF and later chinese-built TFs as those later cars were made in countries that already had high ethanol content fuels. I think it came down to some o-rings in the injectors and fuel lines, but don't quote me on that as they also have plastic tanks!
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Last Edit: Aug 11, 2021 20:38:57 GMT by biturbo228
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Aug 11, 2021 21:20:09 GMT
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My 2004 Alfa GT is on the E10 non compatible list, but it seldom gets used sonot a biggie til they decide to stop supplying E5.
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retired with too many projects!
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perf
Part of things
Posts: 35
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Aug 11, 2021 21:59:05 GMT
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10 years of E10 in Finland, 45 years in Brazil ...
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10 years of E10 in Finland, 45 years in Brazil ... and in the USA since the late 70's.
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Aug 12, 2021 10:24:19 GMT
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I have had several mechanical fuel pumps fail (Three) recently , never had problems with them failing before, I think maybe the E5 is eating them. Not taken one apart to examine yet, anyone else had problems?
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69 Plymouth Fury Convertible 75 Range Rover 2 door 82 Range Rover 4 door 84 Range Rover 4 door 78 Datsun 120Y 2 door 78 Datsun 120Y Coupe 78 Datsun 620 Pickup 81 Datsun Urvan E23 86 Datsun Vanette van 98 Electric Citroen Berlingo 00 Electric Peugeot Partner 02 Electric Citroen Berlingo 76 Honda C50 04 Berlingo Multispace petrol 07 Land Rover 130 15 Nissan E-NV200 15 Fiat Ducato
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Rich
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Club RR Member Number: 160
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E10 petrolRich
@foxmcintyre
Club Retro Rides Member 160
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Aug 12, 2021 11:55:15 GMT
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I have had several mechanical fuel pumps fail (Three) recently , never had problems with them failing before, I think maybe the E5 is eating them. Not taken one apart to examine yet, anyone else had problems? Unlikely, we’ve been using E5 for a long time now.
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Aug 12, 2021 14:14:41 GMT
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lower quality materials in repro parts is more likely.
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