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I shall be needing a lambda sensor controller for wifey's Pop. I've had a search but just ended up confused! I don't need a dash display, just a controller with correct warm up procedure. Any suggestions?
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Proton Jumbuck-deceased :-( 2005 Kia Sorento the parts hauling heap V8 Humber Hawk 1948 Standard12 pickup SOLD 1953 Pop build (wifey's BIVA build).
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gryphon
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 330
Club RR Member Number: 157
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Lambda sensor controllergryphon
@gryphon
Club Retro Rides Member 157
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I was looking for similar a while back - essentially because they were all stupidly expensive and I was pricing up designing/building my own (there are some open source designs around - check Speeduino forums). I ended up with a second hand AEM gauge/controller instead, but this one convinced me it wasn't worth the pain of doing my own. If you already have the sensor, controller by itself is £60. Looks good on paper - I've no experience with it though.
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mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,948
Club RR Member Number: 77
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Lambda sensor controllermk2cossie
@mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member 77
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Jun 10, 2021 16:52:24 GMT
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Is it for use with the standard Ford ECU? If so, you need something with a 0-1volt output signal to keep the sensor readings for the ECU happy. Although if you arent after a gauge, why deviate from the standard ECU sensor?
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Jun 10, 2021 18:30:57 GMT
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It will not be a Ford ECU.
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Proton Jumbuck-deceased :-( 2005 Kia Sorento the parts hauling heap V8 Humber Hawk 1948 Standard12 pickup SOLD 1953 Pop build (wifey's BIVA build).
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Jun 11, 2021 11:33:07 GMT
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Wideband or narrow band…..? You can connect narrow band direct to most ECUs, whereas with wideband, unless you have a new/posh ECU you’ll need a stand-alone wideband controller. Innovate, 14.7, AEM ……. Or just found this lot ldperformance.co.uk/product-category/lambda/about whom I know nothing except their prices are more reasonable than most! Nick
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend) 1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing) 1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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Jun 11, 2021 13:12:42 GMT
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I have one of these LD performance wideband controllers that vitesseefi mentions on my Triumph, connected up to a Speeduino ECU, not had any problems, works a treat.
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Last Edit: Jun 11, 2021 13:17:24 GMT by omnipod
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Jun 11, 2021 13:42:41 GMT
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Sorry, wideband is what I am looking for. I saw the LD ones but some of the reviews are not complementary. It suits my requirements though.
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Proton Jumbuck-deceased :-( 2005 Kia Sorento the parts hauling heap V8 Humber Hawk 1948 Standard12 pickup SOLD 1953 Pop build (wifey's BIVA build).
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I’ve been using an Innovate LC-1 for 15 years. There are loads of bad reviews/rants about those online too. I did have to re-flash the firmware in 2019 when it had a stroke, but other than that it’s been fine……
If I was buying now I’d buy the LD one because I’m cheap. I’d probably buy with the sensor included though as that way, if you did have problems they couldn’t blame the sensor. There are a lot of fake sensors about and some of those are rubbish. Also beware the difference between 4.2 and (later) 4.9 sensors….
Nick
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend) 1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing) 1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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Jun 12, 2021 11:55:53 GMT
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Thanks for the answer Nick. Being somewhat ignorant on this subject could you please explain the difference between the 4.2 and 4.9 sensors. Thanks
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Proton Jumbuck-deceased :-( 2005 Kia Sorento the parts hauling heap V8 Humber Hawk 1948 Standard12 pickup SOLD 1953 Pop build (wifey's BIVA build).
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Jun 12, 2021 12:11:42 GMT
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And for my benefit whats the advantages of wideband over narrowband?(or otherwise?) With apologies to crockpot for thread hijack 😁
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Jun 12, 2021 13:04:08 GMT
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Narrowband or conventional lambda sensors have been around for decades and are designed to sense the stoichiometric condition which is the perfect ratio or air to fuel (AFR, 14.7 for petrol) to give a theoretical complete burn. They are designed this way to be used to fine tune engines with catalytic converters which give best emissions results. So while great at detecting the stoichiometric point, they are not at all accurate at sensing actual air/fuel ratio once you move away from this point. As you actually really want and engine to work over a wider range, typically a richer mixture (mid to high 12s for NA, maybe lower for forced induction) gives best power, whereas under cruise conditions a leaner mixture (15 - 16) will give better economy. Wideband sensors are able to accurately measure AFR from 10:1 to 20:1, so having one of these on your car when your tuning is like working in full daylight rather than murky moonlight! Plus with a suitably equipped ECU and a sensible target table you often have a self-tune option available.
Most modern petrol cars (post 2010 say) have wideband sensors as they allow more accurate control and cat technology has improved to give better performance over a wider mixture range anyway allowing the management to get the best from the engine performance wise and emissions wise. In theory anyway!
As to the difference between the Bosch LSU 4.2 and 4.9 sensors, I don’t really know without going away and looking it up.
4.2 was the first and works pretty well. The sensors (the real ones anyway) are quite expensive. Not very many used OEM.
4.9 came later and is presumably a development of 4.2. The sensors seem to be cheaper, which might be because they have wider applications as OEM and made in greater numbers.
The controls are different, though some later aftermarket controllers can be configured for either, which I would consider a nice-to-have feature. 4.9 likely to be more future proof.
Nick
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend) 1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing) 1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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Jun 12, 2021 13:16:18 GMT
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Found this….. www.ecotrons.com/files/LSU4.9%20vs.%20LSU4.2.pdfNo need for free air calibration is a substantial advantage in itself! I also just re-read the LD performance stuff and it seems there is now the Bosch LSU ADV which is the next generation again and what their controller is for……Confusing isn’t it?! Nick
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1967 Triumph Vitesse convertible (old friend) 1996 Audi A6 2.5 TDI Avant (still durability testing) 1972 GT6 Mk3 (Restored after loong rest & getting the hang of being a car again)
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Jun 12, 2021 14:34:49 GMT
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Nick, many thanks for your time and input, much appreciated.
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Proton Jumbuck-deceased :-( 2005 Kia Sorento the parts hauling heap V8 Humber Hawk 1948 Standard12 pickup SOLD 1953 Pop build (wifey's BIVA build).
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Jun 12, 2021 14:59:01 GMT
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Only thing with the LD unit is the warm up function is deactivated by default and you have to activate it yourself. There is no conformation so you have to hope it's activated. It also seems that the Bosch LSU ADV is actually the 4.9 sensor.
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Proton Jumbuck-deceased :-( 2005 Kia Sorento the parts hauling heap V8 Humber Hawk 1948 Standard12 pickup SOLD 1953 Pop build (wifey's BIVA build).
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mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member
Posts: 2,948
Club RR Member Number: 77
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Lambda sensor controllermk2cossie
@mk2cossie
Club Retro Rides Member 77
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Jun 12, 2021 16:15:16 GMT
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The 4.2 sensors seem to be a bit harder to source quality replacements now compared to the 4.9. May be something to bear in mind
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Jun 12, 2021 16:54:24 GMT
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Thanks for the explanation, much appreciated 👍
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Jun 13, 2021 13:54:11 GMT
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Be sure to use a relay switched live feed from the battery to ensure you get a good strong supply to feed the sensor - don't just pick any old switched live feed, that sensor heater needs a good supply. Not doing so can lead to a failed sensor very quickly - its a mistake I made last year.
Also mount the sensor vertically in the exhaust if you can or at the very least at either 3 or 9 o'clock. Moisture via exhaust condensate also burns them out very quickly.
Appols if I'm "telling granny..."
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Jun 13, 2021 14:56:09 GMT
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Granny's listening Sensor bung is at approx 10 o'clock. Sensor failure due to heat shock was why the warm up procedure was of interest. Thanks for the input, all good stuff.
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Proton Jumbuck-deceased :-( 2005 Kia Sorento the parts hauling heap V8 Humber Hawk 1948 Standard12 pickup SOLD 1953 Pop build (wifey's BIVA build).
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Jun 13, 2021 15:32:11 GMT
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Round here if you mounted a lambda at 6 o’clock position it'd get wiped off on a pothole long before it got the chance to fail Theres a reason i drive a Range Rover 🙄
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shin2chin
Part of things
Making curse word cars slightly better
Posts: 820
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Jun 13, 2021 17:26:39 GMT
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I've got an Innovate in my 924 but recently bought a Barbarian Powerplay to run in my Beetle. Really impressed with the features over the Innovate. Calibrate with the sensor in place etc
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Last Edit: Jun 13, 2021 17:28:38 GMT by shin2chin
1977 PORSCHE 2.0na 924 1974 VW Beetle 1600
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